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[JonSnow]

Nailed it. I’m fine with Chris Shinn as the lead singer of Unified Theory, not the lead singer of Live.

I have absolutely no problem with Kevin Martin as the lead singer of TGF, but wouldn’t be a fan of him performing Pain Lies on the Riverside.

Kevin Martin is also exponentially more talented than Chris Shinn. Peak Ed versus Chris Shinn isn’t a comparison either, and is the main reason for Lives success versus Unified Theory or his other less successful projects.

If Chris and CCP had started a band not named Live and put out the same exact album they put out under the name of Live, would you have been more fine with it then? Because The Turn was a very solid rock album, far better than the Local 717 and SFBM ep/album that it was sandwiched between. It was also better than V and just as strong musically, for the most part, as BOP.

Peak Ed? Ed at anytime in his life or career was and is 1000x better than Chris Shinn as a performer.

Fair enough. It just seems to me, as an outsider and a huge fan, that everyone involved in Live has handled the last 20 years or so horribly. I imagine Ed was not the first rock lead singer ever to have an outsized ego but that’s usually kept in house. I just think its unfair to judge the inner workings of the band on here say and anecdotes, because there are many sides to every story.

Btw, I will never defend the quality of the music since 1999. 1991 -1999 was magical and the reason the majority of us still follow the band. With the exception of a few moments on V and BoP, and Ed’s second album, its all been mediocre at best.

Singers that have out-sized egos is something that is rarely kept in house. What is usually kept in house are the shittiest songs and shittiest albums, at least during a band's creative peak. When the singer's ego starts to take center stage over everything else is usually when things spiral out of control and the band breaks up. But that's because the other guys in the band have egos as big as the singer's. Other bands with turmoil going on won't usually allow it to get to the point where their name is attached to an album like SFBM that is so far removed from the band's original "mission statement". They'll just quit out of pride and spite. Live seriously should've just made a country album after Birds of Pray. At least that album would've had a fucking personality. In fact, I don't even consider it a Live album. It was Ed Kowalcyzk and The Alive Guys. The Turn (at least in spirit) was the album they were supposed to make after BOP, not SFBM.

In hindsight; The Turn was obviously supposed to hit and revitalize the band's brand. Outside the pride of things I doubt it even mattered so much whether the music was actually better or worse than the last original album that carried the name of Live. But it didn't hit and I think it completely knocked the wind out of their sails, especially CT's. If The Turn had generated any success, and tbh the band has SUCKED TOTAL ASS for a very long time at promoting themselves (...makes me wonder just how many people at old Radioactive Records they owe their careers to), then we might not be talking about all this crap right now and an Ed reunion probably never takes place.

/2cents

[LiveForNow]

If anybody can get NEW information from Kevin Martin, Chris Shinn or Chris Thorn I will PayPal the person who asks the question US $20.

When I say "new" I mean shit that I don't know. And it has to be Live or The Gracious Few related.

The last time I offered $ for something it caused all sorts of trouble, but I got what I wanted so I don't care. (btw, it was sent to me free of charge)

Dan, what do you want to know from Chris and Chris? I'll do my best to get something, and I won't accept your money.

[Tips]

First of all, fantastic discussion in this thread! Talking about this beloved band has been one of my favorite things to do since their inception, and I get sad when this forum gets quiet, so keep it coming. Even better when, even though we may not agree, things stay respectful.
That wasn’t meant to be a jab at you, Tips. It was an apology to the frequent regulars here, who might get tired of me saying the same thing. I can’t really argue with your analysis of Ed and the examples you used, one bit. Ed is eccentric and narcissistic, and has been from the start. I mean he called himself Zedd prior to/during Public Affection! I do miss the Ed we had from MJ-SS. I saw a decline in the band begin with TDTH album. Meaning, we started to see and hear his solo-style start to come through/be allowed in with certain songs... Like Run to the Water. Omg, I can’t stomach any of that kind of stuff of his. Recently I posted a Top 5 Līve Moments thread... if I did the opposite, and flip it to “Top 5 Cringeworthy Līve Moments, Things That Made You Say, Oh Shit, No!”, that style of stuff being allowed to be on the TDTH album would be on my list. The 9/11 Overcome incident on yours. The decision to click on his video for solo song “Seven” would also be on mine. He is soooo cheesy in that one, it’s almost just as bad in the video for Love Lounge. Anyway Tips, I can’t argue with your opinions for liking Shinn, you explained it well, simply just not how I feel. As cheesy as he is (“the creepy uncle”, as some have described), there’s no other singer I want in Live, and my love for Ed is still immense. It’s something I really can’t explain.

I didn't take it as a jab per se but thanks for clarifying

I still agree with you on Ed's part in the band and yes he's an amazing frontman. But I have this thing where I find insincere artists' work uninsteresting. I don't think I've listened to Live in years, bar The Turn or the odd song here and there. I find that sad but I'm just unable to enjoy it as much. There was a feeling that songs conveyed but when that feeling feels fake and manufactured to feed an ego, I'm turned off.

If Chris and CCP had started a band not named Live and put out the same exact album they put out under the name of Live, would you have been more fine with it then? Because The Turn was a very solid rock album, far better than the Local 717 and SFBM ep/album that it was sandwiched between. It was also better than V and just as strong musically, for the most part, as BOP.

Singers that have out-sized egos is something that is rarely kept in house. What is usually kept in house are the shittiest songs and shittiest albums, at least during a band's creative peak. When the singer's ego starts to take center stage over everything else is usually when things spiral out of control and the band breaks up. But that's because the other guys in the band have egos as big as the singer's. Other bands with turmoil going on won't usually allow it to get to the point where their name is attached to an album like SFBM that is so far removed from the band's original "mission statement". They'll just quit out of pride and spite. Live seriously should've just made a country album after Birds of Pray. At least that album would've had a fucking personality. In fact, I don't even consider it a Live album. It was Ed Kowalcyzk and The Alive Guys. The Turn (at least in spirit) was the album they were supposed to make after BOP, not SFBM.

In hindsight; The Turn was obviously supposed to hit and revitalize the band's brand. Outside the pride of things I doubt it even mattered so much whether the music was actually better or worse than the last original album that carried the name of Live. But it didn't hit and I think it completely knocked the wind out of their sails, especially CT's. If The Turn had generated any success, and tbh the band has SUCKED TOTAL ASS for a very long time at promoting themselves (...makes me wonder just how many people at old Radioactive Records they owe their careers to), then we might not be talking about all this crap right now and an Ed reunion probably never takes place.

/2cents

Totally agree! The vast majority of frontmen/frontwomen have a big ego. But when the ego takes over, the music takes a backseat and that's a problem. I could care less about Ed's ego. But if it feeds the music and emotion or message you're trying to convey, it voids it, to me anyway.

[dangum]

Chris Shinn and Christopher Thorn will be on Instagram live together tonight at 9pm EST.

https://instagram.com/chrisshinn/
https://instagram.com/firesidesound/

Not sure what time this is in your city?
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixe...00410T21&p1=412

[alexou]

If Chris and CCP had started a band not named Live and put out the same exact album they put out under the name of Live, would you have been more fine with it then? Because The Turn was a very solid rock album, far better than the Local 717 and SFBM ep/album that it was sandwiched between. It was also better than V and just as strong musically, for the most part, as BOP.

Singers that have out-sized egos is something that is rarely kept in house. What is usually kept in house are the shittiest songs and shittiest albums, at least during a band's creative peak. When the singer's ego starts to take center stage over everything else is usually when things spiral out of control and the band breaks up. But that's because the other guys in the band have egos as big as the singer's. Other bands with turmoil going on won't usually allow it to get to the point where their name is attached to an album like SFBM that is so far removed from the band's original "mission statement". They'll just quit out of pride and spite. Live seriously should've just made a country album after Birds of Pray. At least that album would've had a fucking personality. In fact, I don't even consider it a Live album. It was Ed Kowalcyzk and The Alive Guys. The Turn (at least in spirit) was the album they were supposed to make after BOP, not SFBM.

In hindsight; The Turn was obviously supposed to hit and revitalize the band's brand. Outside the pride of things I doubt it even mattered so much whether the music was actually better or worse than the last original album that carried the name of Live. But it didn't hit and I think it completely knocked the wind out of their sails, especially CT's. If The Turn had generated any success, and tbh the band has SUCKED TOTAL ASS for a very long time at promoting themselves (...makes me wonder just how many people at old Radioactive Records they owe their careers to), then we might not be talking about all this crap right now and an Ed reunion probably never takes place.

/2cents

The Turn could have helped their brand...poor management killed it all. They did a huge tour in 2013... ok, it was only a 7 songs set, but still, if they added Siren's call or Rodgerton to their set with the album for sale at the time, who knows? Those are 2 great songs. Instead they waited more than a full year before releasing it, and they almost didn't tour for it. So it's almost like they wanted to fail.

[Ecstatic Fanatic]

The Turn could have helped their brand...poor management killed it all. They did a huge tour in 2013... ok, it was only a 7 songs set, but still, if they added Siren's call or Rodgerton to their set with the album for sale at the time, who knows? Those are 2 great songs. Instead they waited more than a full year before releasing it, and they almost didn't tour for it. So it's almost like they wanted to fail.

I think they approached it from the logic that if they made a good, rocking album under the Live brand name it would sell itself. But with all the changes in the music industry over the past 10 to 20 years, both in how albums are sold and marketed and in tastes in general, that clearly wasn’t the case.

Then once it became apparent that The Turn, which I like by the way even with all the drama surrounding it being with a different lead singer, wasn’t going to be Throwing Copper 2.0 they kind of slinked back and went through the motions.

I don’t know if the reunion was truly an organic happening or a money grab, but I see some parallels between now and The Turn. Namely jumpstart your brand and expect success without effort and when that doesn’t pan out go through motions.

This post has been edited by Ecstatic Fanatic: Apr 10 2020, 10:33 am

[Possum Kingdom]

I think they approached it from the logic that if they made a good, rocking album under the Live brand name it would sell itself. But with all the changes in the music industry over the past 10 to 20 years, both in how albums are sold and marketed and in tastes in general, that clearly wasn’t the case.

Then once it became apparent that The Turn, which I like by the way even with all the drama surrounding it being with a different lead singer, wasn’t going to be Throwing Copper 2.0 they kind of slinked back and went through the motions.

I don’t know if the reunion was truly an organic happening or a money grab, but I see some parallels between now and The Turn. Namely jumpstart your brand and expect success without effort and when that doesn’t pan out go through motions.

When did Live's long time manager pass away? I'm wondering if there is a direct correlation between his passing and their downward spiral? Maybe he was the glue that held it all together?

[JonSnow]

The Turn could have helped their brand...poor management killed it all. They did a huge tour in 2013... ok, it was only a 7 songs set, but still, if they added Siren's call or Rodgerton to their set with the album for sale at the time, who knows? Those are 2 great songs. Instead they waited more than a full year before releasing it, and they almost didn't tour for it. So it's almost like they wanted to fail.

They didn't want it to fail, they just didn't have the first clue how to make it succeed. Remember, these are guys who'd grown up in the era of tacking fliers on physical bulletin boards and passing around cassette tapes as a means to market themselves. Also, they weren't young and hungry any longer. Also, they didn't have the old Radioactive marketing team any longer, or even have a major label low-level A&R guy hanging around pretending to give a shit like in 2006/2007. And this is all taking place in an era of Spotify and YouTube.

People who hated them moving forward with Shinn and drinking in with glee the fact that things went nowhere with him like to pretend it was because Shinn and The Turn sucked when it was, like you said, shitty management that did them in.

When did Live's long time manager pass away? I'm wondering if there is a direct correlation between his passing and their downward spiral? Maybe he was the glue that held it all together?

Gary Kurfirst? January of 2009. Supposedly they'd had friction with him too at some point (according to CT at least), but July 2009 is when they announced the "2 year hiatus" that eventually turned indefinitely. The timing is awfully suspect there. Even if they'd already had friction with him and were planning a break from Ed before it, his passing probably hastened any longer-term split from Ed.

This post has been edited by AManHasNoName: Apr 10 2020, 2:10 pm

[LiveForNow]

They didn't want it to fail, they just didn't have the first clue how to make it succeed. Remember, these are guys who'd grown up in the era of tacking fliers on physical bulletin boards and passing around cassette tapes as a means to market themselves. Also, they weren't young and hungry any longer. Also, they didn't have the old Radioactive marketing team any longer, or even have a major label low-level A&R guy hanging around pretending to give a shit like in 2006/2007. And this is all taking place in an era of Spotify and YouTube.

People who hated them moving forward with Shinn and drinking in with glee the fact that things went nowhere with him like to pretend it was because Shinn and The Turn sucked when it was, like you said, shitty management that did them in.
Gary Kurfirst? January of 2009. Supposedly they'd had friction with him too at some point (according to CT at least), but July 2009 is when they announced the "2 year hiatus" that eventually turned indefinitely. The timing is awfully suspect there. Even if they'd already had friction with him and were planning a break from Ed before it, his passing probably hastened any longer-term split from Ed.

When did Hardin Bourke start representing them?

[LiveForNow]

If anybody can get NEW information from Kevin Martin, Chris Shinn or Chris Thorn I will PayPal the person who asks the question US $20.

When I say "new" I mean shit that I don't know. And it has to be Live or The Gracious Few related.

The last time I offered $ for something it caused all sorts of trouble, but I got what I wanted so I don't care. (btw, it was sent to me free of charge)

I think we should all Paypal Dan $20 for doing an incredible job moderating these boards.

[dangum]

Chris Shinn Instagram stream has started

https://www.instagram.com/chrisshinn/

[Bob]

Chris Shinn Instagram stream has started

https://www.instagram.com/chrisshinn/

Is there a direct link for this? I don't have an IG account and really don't want one, but I'd love to watch this. Nothing is live on his Twitter or IG accounts if you don't log in, apparently.

This post has been edited by Bob: Apr 10 2020, 8:34 pm

[dangum]

Is there a direct link for this? I don't have an IG account and really don't want one, but I'd love to watch this. Nothing is live on his Twitter or IG accounts if you don't log in, apparently.

You need an Instagram login in order to view live streams.

[Bob]

Is there a direct link for this? I don't have an IG account and really don't want one, but I'd love to watch this. Nothing is live on his Twitter or IG accounts if you don't log in, apparently.

Shinn says he's getting a lot of Live questions and he just said he really doesn't want to answer any of them, so there goes that idea...

[Bob]

You need an Instagram login in order to view live streams.

Goddamn Facebook BS. Had to use my wife's Insta account to watch. Grrrr.