Chad Gracey thinks a 17 song setlist is 'a lot' Options

[Voodoo Lady]

Oh, and having video is a bs excuse for not switching the set more - a lot of the stuff at ALTimate tour was basic screensaver stuff.

Not doubting that. Thanks. I haven’t seen it yet.

[Bob]

I'm mixed on this topic, as IMO, 17 songs isn't a lot. I'm 44 and a drummer that's been in bands for 24 years, and I'd play longer than that if I had the material. There's nothing wrong with 2 sets and an encore that's a total of 25 songs with the catalog that Live has. Take a break, switch the stage up and do an acoustic set, then come back out and rock the encore so I leave with ringing ears and a smile on my face. Most cover bands in the Seattle area play 2+ hours and take breaks between sets.

I did some research on a few other bands currently playing and Weird Al is doing ~22 songs on his tour, Dream Theater is playing less songs (10), but their runtime is longer (~81 minutes), and my wife saw Garth Brooks a few weeks ago and he played 30 songs. I realize these bands aren't apples to apples, but they're all older, with more material, and they're still managing a longer play time.

In the end though, it doesn't really matter, because you know that Live isn't going to change, no matter how loud we scream on a forum, and the casuals (like my wife who just wanted to see Ed again) that are going to the shows *are* happy. These days the casuals also make up the bulk of the crowds, so if they're still coming out and filling seats, there's not much we can do.

Between the sub-par quality of material on Local 717 and the less than stellar setlists since the band re-formed, being a Live fan is hard these days. I've been trying to figure out what keeps me around, and I think I've got it: guilt after being an unwavering fan since I first heard them in 1996, and CG is why I became a drummer in the first place. However, I'm betting if I had a therapist, they'd tell me to get over it and enjoy the music that I like, but it's OK to move on. Easier said than done.

That said, I am currently enjoying The Turn, despite Live's best efforts to remove it from their history. It's a fantastic album, and I often wonder what would have happened if we turned back the clock and CCP made it a TGF album instead. It would have been a win-win for the fans and Live. They get to keep making records with awesome guest musicians and we get new music, but the Live moniker is saved for if Ed ever came back. If not, they stay as TGF and release albums and tour when they want to. I realize TGF only sold 20,000 albums, but we all know it's the tours that make money anyway, so maybe that wasn't a bad deal in the end. Set up tours with other bands (it's not like they don't have connections) and everyone has a good time.

In other music news, I'm also listening to Steven Wilson's newest album called To The Bone. He's the singer/guitarist from Porcupine Tree. He has a guest vocalist named Ninet Tayeb that's got an amazing voice. Look up Pariah on YouTube if you're curious. I always get chills at 3:15 after that buildup. Maybe you will too.

Sorry for the rant. I've been sitting on that for a while now and was trying to figure out how to put it into words.

This post has been edited by Bob: Jul 21 2019, 10:07 pm

[ADAD]

Here are my thoughts on the issue, disjointed as they may be.

When I went to the opening night of the Altimate tour, to me the setlist felt short, tired (despite it being the opening night), and uninspired.

For the most part, the biggest change from last year's tour with the Counting Crows to this year was swapping covers I didn't care to hear for other covers I didn't care to hear. It's not as though Losing My Religion or Paint It Black got unusually large pops from the crowd nor that Live's versions were particularly inspiring (Paint It Black, in particular, just doesn't sound right with Ed doing a Mick Jagger impression). Beyond the covers, they played the songs I expected them to play and mostly in the order I expected them to be played. Live has too broad and too excellent of a catalog to be that uninspired.

I GET that Lightning Crashes, Dolphins Cry, All Over You, Selling The Drama, I Alone have to be played every show... probably Lakini's Juice and White, Discussion too. Still, that's only 7 songs. It leaves a lot of room for creativity with the other half of the set if they are only going to play 14 tracks. To me, they have failed in that regard.

The above is compounded by the band having totally ignored their new release since hitting the road. The TC 25th anniversary album was released last week, but Hold Me Up has now been out for almost 2 full months and its release was timed almost perfectly with the start of the Altimate tour. What's more, it's a great freaking song. The TC 25th album has no appeal beyond the three "new" songs; otherwise people will just as soon buy/stream the original album and tracks. The band has done nothing beyond a few social media posts to promote this record and new music; to not promote it while on the road playing in front of 8,000+ people most nights defies all logic.

However illogical I find the Band's decisions from a business perspective, I don't particularly care about the band's business beyond how it impacts me as a fan (i.e., the more in demand the band is, the more they will tour and they more opportunities there will be to see them). I do care that they are leaving great music at home to play essentially the same set every night. I think we all became fans of Live because their music - both on record and in concert - always felt incredibly inspired. After the 2 shows I've seen in the last 2 years (opening at Jones Beach and co-headlining at Foxwoods), I just don't sense the same inspiration. To speak to a point of contention in this thread, I don't believe you need a 2.5 hour show or 25 songs for an inspired performance; it's just something you know when you see. I'm not seeing it.

None of this means that the shows aren't entertaining or even that I won't go to the tour again when it comes through Jones Beach this year. It simply means this band is capable of better and that in and of itself makes the shows at least a little disappointing.

[jcs420x365]

I did some research on a few other bands currently playing and Weird Al is doing ~22 songs on his tour, Dream Theater is playing less songs (10), but their runtime is longer (~81 minutes), and my wife saw Garth Brooks a few weeks ago and he played 30 songs. I realize these bands aren't apples to apples, but they're all older, with more material, and they're still managing a longer play time.

Please allow me to nerd out in a similar manner for a minute: checked my records and Springsteen's average set time on his last tour in 2016 was 3h27m over 75 shows (with no set breaks!). They played 144 songs on the tour (113 twice or more), no small feat given that the first 21 songs of the set were identical for the first 35 shows or so. He would have been 67 that year and longest show was 4h5m!

[ADAD]

Comparing Live and Springsteen as concert performers is, sadly for us, like comparing a 4th division little league team with the New York Yankees.

Well, it's not that sad for me because I am a big Springsteen fan and catch him multiple times every tour. But it does create an awfully shitty comparison when I see what my other favorite band (Live) is doing on the road.

[Lakini's Juice]

Remember this legendary gig?

[dangum]

Remember this legendary gig?

Sure do! An excellent soundboard + audience recording is available of this show.

[FLAC] 2001-08-27 Grunspan, Hamburg, GER, FM/AUD mix

[LiveForNow]

I also think Gracey doesn't like answering those types of questions, so he may have just said "a lot" to move on with his day.

[Live4Life]

Funny, I used to think 17 songs was a lot. Like others said, 2 hours is good for me...like 20 songs or so. They do have tons of songs however so they could do more.

[Hoodstock]

Remember this legendary gig?

The current setlist is less than half of that concert. They don't even hit the FIRST encore until song 18. What the hell happened to these guys?

[Bremang]

The current setlist is less than half of that concert. They don't even hit the FIRST encore until song 18. What the hell happened to these guys?

pretty crazy setlist
they played simple creed twice?

[dangum]

pretty crazy setlist
they played simple creed twice?

Yep. An acoustic and electric version. I posted a link to a recording. Definitely check it out.

[dangum]

The Eagles played a 3 hour, 34 track show a couple of days ago. The 3 surviving members of The Eagles were all born in 1947, which makes them 73 years old.

Sure, their touring schedule isn't as packed as Live's but if they can do it then why can't Live at least do 2 hours?

[JonSnow]

The Eagles played a 3 hour, 34 track show a couple of days ago. The 3 surviving members of The Eagles were all born in 1947, which makes them 73 years old.

Sure, their touring schedule isn't as packed as Live's but if they can do it then why can't Live at least do 2 hours?

Because they don't give enough of a shit. Which is fine, it's their right not to give a shit. It's their band. But just stop pretending to give a shit beyond just getting out in the summer to make a few bucks (which is also their right) and having a little summer fun. They aren't a relevant creative entity anymore, they're a legacy act at best.

Bottomline is to be real and I haven't gotten the vibe from them in a few years that they're real with anybody. Maybe they never were.

[Voodoo Lady]

Because they don't give enough of a shit. Which is fine, it's their right not to give a shit. It's their band. But just stop pretending to give a shit beyond just getting out in the summer to make a few bucks (which is also their right) and having a little summer fun. They aren't a relevant creative entity anymore, they're a legacy act at best.

Bottomline is to be real and I haven't gotten the vibe from them in a few years that they're real with anybody. Maybe they never were.

I think you’re right. They don’t give a shit. And yes, they have every right not to.
Like you, I wish they’d stop pretending they do. If they’d just own up to it, then I think I could finally stop giving a shit about them and move on.