Live debuts Hold Me Up: Listen Now Options

[Existentialist]

Having worked professionally with Ed, Zak and CCP collectively for 9 years, they're not frauds. They're good people, very genuine and have produced some amazing work over the years. They treat their fans well, they genuinely care! Okay they had a huge falling out, but shit happens, they mended the bridges and got back to trying to be the best they can be.

You think it's cool to sit behind a username and throw everything under the sun at these guys?

You've been doing it now for so long, it's time to address it.

Imagine if you're a Doctor and I called you a fraud with no basis or anything to back me up. Just like you have done in the above post?

How would you like it?

Would you defend yourself?

Would you allow patients to throw mud at you on social media to try damage your character, good standing in the community?

You want to keep slandering their good name Doctor Who? Keep it up and I'll happily pass on your personal details to them.
We'll see then how much of a keyboard warrior you really are!

You mad bro?

[mattyeagles]

You mad bro?

I agree with gerrycan. Fans have been coming to this board for several years hoping for some positive developments. Today was a positive development and you choose to continuously bring negativity.

[Existentialist]

I apologize for hurting everyone’s feelings.

[Hoodstock]

I'm excited to hear this song and for it to be available. Listening to it brings me back to listening to this album when I was younger. Ed's raw voice is there and the young energy of the band before making it huge is apparent. It definitely fits the TC era.

I wish we could truly know how this song would have done if it had actually been on the album back in the day. Perhaps another solid song like Top or Iris. Perhaps a huge hit that took Live to even another level. We'll never know.

All three "new" tracks are all pretty well known by fans. I also wonder how many gems from the TC recordings will never see the light of day. I would love to hear everything from every album session.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: May 30 2019, 6:38 pm

[Voodoo Lady]

Ok, let's say you are right. I met CT twice. One time it was a bad experience and the second a good one. Just a couple of seconds/minutes each time, but still.

What do you answer to the stagnant and short setlists argument? I think it's a fair one. Fans could expect more songs and more variations through the years. I don't want to trick you, just have your own view on this.

Some promises were also broken or just not fulfilled. Maybe some for legal reasons, but still. Thanks for your input.

I’ve never been lucky enough to meet any of my fave rock stars (I’ve had way better luck with athletes and movie stars). I know people have bad days, can be in a hurry, not feeling well, occasionally irritated by the same old statements from random fans, etc, so I take “bad experience” stories with a grain of salt. I truly believe ECCP and Zak ARE good people with good intentions, who love their fans, as Gerry describes. However, I do think alexou has asked a great question. Even though I love this band, admittedly probably more than I love some people in my own family, I feel they have faults of not putting forth their best at all times for Līve fans and it’s a legitimate issue. I think it’s perfectly healthy to come here and have those respectful conversations about ECCP. That is what the message board is for, after all. With that said, I would love to hear Gerry’s perspective and I appreciate everyone who has expressed their feelings on the constant barrage of disrespectful comments of Existentialist. I am with you.

[Existentialist]

I’ve never been lucky enough to meet any of my fave rock stars (I’ve had way better luck with athletes and movie stars). I know people have bad days, can be in a hurry, not feeling well, occasionally irritated by the same old statements from random fans, etc, so I take “bad experience” stories with a grain of salt. I truly believe ECCP and Zak ARE good people with good intentions, who love their fans, as Gerry describes. However, I do think alexou has asked a great question. Even though I love this band, admittedly probably more than I love some people in my own family, I feel they have faults of not putting forth their best at all times for Līve fans and it’s a legitimate issue. I think it’s perfectly healthy to come here and have those respectful conversations about ECCP. That is what the message board is for, after all. With that said, I would love to hear Gerry’s perspective and I appreciate everyone who has expressed their feelings on the constant barrage of disrespectful comments of Existentialist. I am with you.

I apologize for hurting your feelings.

[Bremang]

Proven by the fact the three outtakes are included on the first disc in this release.

Right. I know at one point CD-R's went from being like 74 to 80 minutes long. It's possible CD making machines upgraded over time, but still, there were albums that were longer than TC by 1994

[Bremang]

I hate to say that I thought the same immediately when the first chorus kicks in. There is a ton of mastering compression on this and it really kills the dynamics. The mastering on TC isn't particularly good (the vinyl master is the only way I can even listen now) but it isn't near this compressed. Could be a few reasons for this:

-Audio via video is a pretty terrible way to hear music. Video uploads automatically add a layer of compression, think about the difference between a FLAC and an MP3 and you'd be pretty close. I'm kind of in "wait and see" mode on that.

-While the song is pretty fuckin' polished, now hearing the recording clearer, I don't believe that it got the same full mix treatment that final album songs got. It's really damn close, but there's a step or two missing. That's obviously a different problem than a shitty master, but the two combined together is very not good.

-Similarly, it is hard to say what the actual source audio was here, but that could result in a bad master. If they don't have the original analog tapes or digital files, then their hands on kinda tied on what it would sound like. The MJ outtakes were clearly finished for the album, but this one wasn't so we just have no idea about the mix status or the source.

-Lastly, yeah they may have cheaped out on the mastering. I hate to say that but after how Local 717 turned out on the technical mix and master front, could be the case. I don't think though that this is Chad's work. At least as of five years ago, he wasn't doing mastering at all, just mixing. I also thought his work on the Roxy recording was pretty damn good for such an old source, so I'd be surprised that the legacy work would suffer that much in his hands.

So this is bittersweet. I'm glad to have a new version of this song, but even as a clearer mix I don't know if it replaces the cleaned up tape recording for me. Hopefully a lot of the issue is in the video compression, but if it isn't then Susquehanna will likely have the same problem. WDID will, I assume, be the Alive version, which clearly had the benefit of a label behind it and is also a less dynamic song.

There is zero chance that video to audio is the cause, and zero chance that they don't have the source files. Also, Hold me up has been a finished track forever. They even say it was complete, and just not put on the album for whatever reason. The media five tapes are a tape source of finished tracks and you can hear the dynamics very clearly. There's no way that this wasn't remix/remaster with the loudness adjusted. I disagree also that the TC was poorly mastered to begin with. It was mastered by Ted Jensen, mixed by Tom Lord-Alge and produced by Jerry Harrison, three great talents who did a fantastic job. Great record. Rendered unlistenable by Chad Taylor. The first time I played the new Hold me Up I was excited to go along for the ride, and then it felt like my computer was broken because the volume kept going up. what the hell Chad

[Bremang]

very genuine

pull up any interview with any band member in the past 20 years where they were completely honest

[Bremang]

I apologize for hurting everyone's feelings.

that's very sweet i forgive you

[Bremang]

I wish we could truly know how this song would have done if it had actually been on the album back in the day. Perhaps another solid song like Top or Iris. Perhaps a huge hit that took Live to even another level. We'll never know.

an mtv video for hold me up off the mallrats soundtrack in late 1995 would've been a hit after lightning crashes

[alexou]

I’ve never been lucky enough to meet any of my fave rock stars (I’ve had way better luck with athletes and movie stars). I know people have bad days, can be in a hurry, not feeling well, occasionally irritated by the same old statements from random fans, etc, so I take “bad experience” stories with a grain of salt. I truly believe ECCP and Zak ARE good people with good intentions, who love their fans, as Gerry describes. However, I do think alexou has asked a great question. Even though I love this band, admittedly probably more than I love some people in my own family, I feel they have faults of not putting forth their best at all times for Līve fans and it’s a legitimate issue. I think it’s perfectly healthy to come here and have those respectful conversations about ECCP. That is what the message board is for, after all. With that said, I would love to hear Gerry’s perspective and I appreciate everyone who has expressed their feelings on the constant barrage of disrespectful comments of Existentialist. I am with you.

I met briefly CT after the ACTC show in Atlantic City. I think he was overwhelmed after the show and didn't have much to say. PD, Shinn and Pat were very nice. I have a guitar signed by Taylor, Shinn and Gracey.

The second time, 2014 in Quebec, talked 5 minutes in a restaurant in the afternoon prior to the show. I even asked if they would play a bit more songs from the Turn and he said no. We only got Siren's call. Again Shinn was very nice. CT signed my guitar there and even said a couple of things (not so nice) about Ed. Things change, right? But that was a nicer experience.

This to say, about promises that were broken, one I really thought they would hold is that they would play alot of songs from the Turn in concert. Didn't happen. Guess it started to be bad with Shinn and they didn't push it. I know Shinn had his problems in concert, but really wish that iteration could finish better. Sure that Shinn is a very nice person. Never met Ed though, but since I'll skip that tour, really not looking for it.

[Bremang]

still waiting for my unreleased track for signing up for the f4l mailing list

[Merica]

Yeah, nice one. Somehow I weirdly prefer the old "attempted remaster" version. Just used to it, I guess.

Shame there's nothing new to discover on the TC25 stuff, but I think that was always unlikely.

[WaiterAtCliftons]

I met briefly CT after the ACTC show in Atlantic City. I think he was overwhelmed after the show and didn't have much to say. PD, Shinn and Pat were very nice. I have a guitar signed by Taylor, Shinn and Gracey.

The second time, 2014 in Quebec, talked 5 minutes in a restaurant in the afternoon prior to the show. I even asked if they would play a bit more songs from the Turn and he said no. We only got Siren's call. Again Shinn was very nice. CT signed my guitar there and even said a couple of things (not so nice) about Ed. Things change, right? But that was a nicer experience.

This to say, about promises that were broken, one I really thought they would hold is that they would play alot of songs from the Turn in concert. Didn't happen. Guess it started to be bad with Shinn and they didn't push it. I know Shinn had his problems in concert, but really wish that iteration could finish better. Sure that Shinn is a very nice person. Never met Ed though, but since I'll skip that tour, really not looking for it.

I've been lucky enough to meet every band member multiple times. As someone said taking bad experience stories with a grain of salt, I do the same. CT for example, I have see him after a few shows and he is pretty quiet, not in a disrespectful way but could very well be from exhaustion from playing a set on a long tour. I have also had the privilege to get to spend a good part of the afternoon with him just 1 on 1 with my wife there as well and he could not have been nicer. Not to mention completely open and honest about everything we talked about.

I've never met any of the other guys outside of before/after shows as well as the 210 gig they did back when Shinn was there. Gracey and PD have always been pleasant to talk too, sometimes quiet. Ed has always been quiet but I will say this....at a York Fair show many years ago we were around backstage and I asked for a picture while he was getting in a van. Security was quickly trying to push us away. Then I was surprised to see Ed get out of the van and allowed security to let us by so that we could take pictures. I think that picture is still in my profile here. He didn't have to do that, he could have let security do their job so he could leave but he was nice enough to allow it.

I can honestly say I've never had a bad experience with any of them. Like I said, at times they are quiet but have never been disrespectful in any way. I have seen some bands be really shitty towards their fans, never got that from these guys.

Slightly off topic but Shaun Morgan from Seether was probably one of the most down to earth rock stars I've ever met in person. Dude is legit a really nice guy.