Live reveal new EP title - "Local 717" Options

[Voodoo Lady]

Points well taken. I can honestly say when I read you guys’ posts, even though I might be taken aback at times by the abrasiveness, I really do understand your frustrations. It’s kind of weird for me and this bears repeating- I read the criticisms and can say, “yes, I see that, uh huh, yep, very true, okay, amen,” but at the same time, I still enjoy the new music. You can say I’m in denial, but no, that’s not it. As I said, I really do, 100% recognize their shortcomings. I guess my conflict is the style of the new music is more down my alley. I’ve listened to glam metal since I was 8 years old and so no, the eunach vocals (ha ha) are not a bother for me. Here and there, these songs actually are give a nod back to 80s rock, and so I’m enjoying. If the new stuff had sounded like Ed solo, holy hell, I’d be so done. But wait! There’s Waterfall! Yea, and Waterfall seriously scares me to death, but let’s see what happens. Talk about opening lines, I decided to click “Seven” on YouTube once and I couldn’t get past “Seven gallows, seven heals” without throwing up in my mouth a lil. It’s unfortunately forever burned in my memory as the worst thing I’ve ever heard/seen. So yes, I really understand your pain. I now need to apologize for asking you to enjoy 4 of 5 songs on 717 for “what it is.” If it’s not your thing, you just can’t. I’m honestly just bummed for you.

[LiveFan92]

Points well taken. I can honestly say when I read you guys’ posts, even though I might be taken aback at times by the abrasiveness, I really do understand your frustrations. It’s kind of weird for me and this bears repeating- I read the criticisms and can say, “yes, I see that, uh huh, yep, very true, okay, amen,” but at the same time, I still enjoy the new music. You can say I’m in denial, but no, that’s not it. As I said, I really do, 100% recognize their shortcomings. I guess my conflict is the style of the new music is more down my alley. I’ve listened to glam metal since I was 8 years old and so no, the eunach vocals (ha ha) are not a bother for me. Here and there, these songs actually are give a nod back to 80s rock, and so I’m enjoying.

I feel the same way. Loved the early Live stuff but also digging this for different reasons, and yet I totally get where those who are disappointed are coming from. It IS different than early Live, there's no denying that, and if early Live was what you wanted, yep, I can totally see the frustration!

[LiveFan92]

10,000 Cups is a really, really great song, very reminiscent of when I think Live’s peak was between SS and TDTH before Ed unilaterally remade TDTH into a pop album, so I know it doesn’t. Please, for the love of god Live, release stuff like that.

I don't think I've heard that before. I love TDTH and the tracks that were dropped, but was the album all Ed's doing? I had thought it was still a collaborative process at that point? I'm sure there might be a blog post from a band member about this that I missed, and I would grateful if someone could point me toward it or summarize it if it's no longer around... thank you!

[Existentialist]

I don't think I've heard that before. I love TDTH and the tracks that were dropped, but was the album all Ed's doing? I had thought it was still a collaborative process at that point? I'm sure there might be a blog post from a band member about this that I missed, and I would grateful if someone could point me toward it or summarize it if it's no longer around... thank you!

There were rumors of this for a long time and CT confirmed in a blog post several years ago, saying something to the effect of they thought it was done but Ed retooled it and it came as a surprise to all of them.

[Merica]

There were rumors of this for a long time and CT confirmed in a blog post several years ago, saying something to the effect of they thought it was done but Ed retooled it and it came as a surprise to all of them.

This is what he said in his letter response...

THE DISTANCE TO HERE, 1998 (Marin County, CA and Los Angeles, CA) age, 28yrs.
MEDIA FORMAT: PRO TOOLS, 2” MASTER, ½” MASTER, DAT

In order to make Ed’s shows more enjoyable for him, we added guitarist Christopher Thorn to the live line-up. Chris grew up in Dover, PA, a neighboring town of York. He was always much more a lead guitar player than Ed but he did a great job of finding his way into the feel of the songs. This was the first time a had another guitar player to truly play off of and would influence the fell of the album. Additionally, we brought in session keyboardist Michael “Raylo” Railton to add flavor to the tracks. These guys would form the nuclease of a new sound and new era for the band. Ed’s early demo of The Distance, in my opinion, was far better than the albums version. The drum loop he recorded to had a groove that was simply incredible and we worked very hard to get that feel with Gracey’s drumming. The Distance demo is awesome and a b-side worthy of trying to find. We recorded two version of Sun (one with a down tempo Indian loop and the other with a full rock guitar approach). In the studio this album in particular felt totally different than its finished product. The band was pushing hard for songs like Change, Don’t Wait (I have a CBGB’s demo that features one of Ed greatest vocal performances), Still Aroused and New City. The guitars once again shined on these tracks and the tempos were upbeat. It was a return, I thought to the feel of Copper. When I received the mastered album, it had changed greatly. Gone were those up-tempo rockers, each replaced by mid-tempo singer/songwriter selection. I admit, I was in shock but the record label was really in love with the album. I think I may have made a critical mistake by not pushing to have the rockers win out but then again some of those songs are pretty amazing! Overcome featured the full band and is my preferred version of the song. Face & Ghost originally did not have lyrics and once again is my preferred version of the song. In my opinion, if Secret Samadhi was my vision of the band than TDTH was Ed’s. It ranks as my second favorite Live album and I personally think it was Ed at his absolute very best. I haven’t bought his new album yet but I hope it has some of this flavor; if not it should be on his next! Most of TDTH was tracked live but we clearly let technology start to play a roll (Voodoo Lady for example). We had all begun to purchase recording equipment and began to experiment with loops and productions. There are a ton of unreleased demos from this era. For example, the demo for They Stood Up For Love has different lyrics, an oboe and is one of the last substantial contributions I felt I made to the Live catalog. We also have demos of Voodoo Lady, recorded on April 18th (my daughter, Ruby Lou was born later that day). My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.

And this from a post he made on the old WD message board:

Distance To Here: Ed literally freaked out at the decline in record sales after TC. Seriously, the album debuted at #1 for God’s sake. He was fiercely determined to get back to the model of TC. That meant a lot less jamming and way more of he and I writing together. I brought in “Change,” “Still Aroused By Love”, “Stood Up For Love,” “Don’t Wait”….whereas Ed crafted more singer songwriter songs like “The Distance,” and “Dolphin’s Cry”.

Doesn't blame Ed for the softer album imo, more so the label. But knowing that the softer songs generally were Ed's, you could understand how he might not push as hard as CCP did for the rockers.

[mattyeagles]

There were rumors of this for a long time and CT confirmed in a blog post several years ago, saying something to the effect of they thought it was done but Ed retooled it and it came as a surprise to all of them.

He’s complimentary to Ed and it seems like the label and mixers changed the feel of the album. I dont know where to find it, but the early demo of TDTH is incredible, as are all the B-sides.

“In order to make Ed’s shows more enjoyable for him, we added guitarist Christopher Thorn to the live line-up. Chris grew up in Dover, PA, a neighboring town of York. He was always much more a lead guitar player than Ed but he did a great job of finding his way into the feel of the songs. This was the first time a had another guitar player to truly play off of and would influence the fell of the album. Additionally, we brought in session keyboardist Michael “Raylo” Railton to add flavor to the tracks. These guys would form the nuclease of a new sound and new era for the band. Ed’s early demo of The Distance, in my opinion, was far better than the albums version. The drum loop he recorded to had a groove that was simply incredible and we worked very hard to get that feel with Gracey’s drumming. The Distance demo is awesome and a b-side worthy of trying to find. We recorded two version of Sun (one with a down tempo Indian loop and the other with a full rock guitar approach). In the studio this album in particular felt totally different than its finished product. The band was pushing hard for songs like Change, Don’t Wait (I have a CBGB’s demo that features one of Ed greatest vocal performances), Still Aroused and New City. The guitars once again shined on these tracks and the tempos were upbeat. It was a return, I thought to the feel of Copper. When I received the mastered album, it had changed greatly. Gone were those up-tempo rockers, each replaced by mid-tempo singer/songwriter selection. I admit, I was in shock but the record label was really in love with the album. I think I may have made a critical mistake by not pushing to have the rockers win out but then again some of those songs are pretty amazing! Overcome featured the full band and is my preferred version of the song. Face & Ghost originally did not have lyrics and once again is my preferred version of the song. In my opinion, if Secret Samadhi was my vision of the band than TDTH was Ed’s. It ranks as my second favorite Live album and I personally think it was Ed at his absolute very best. I haven’t bought his new album yet but I hope it has some of this flavor; if not it should be on his next! Most of TDTH was tracked live but we clearly let technology start to play a roll (Voodoo Lady for example). We had all begun to purchase recording equipment and began to experiment with loops and productions. There are a ton of unreleased demos from this era. For example, the demo for They Stood Up For Love has different lyrics, an oboe and is one of the last substantial contributions I felt I made to the Live catalog. We also have demos of Voodoo Lady, recorded on April 18th (my daughter, Ruby Lou was born later that day). My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.”

This post has been edited by mattyeagles: Oct 30 2018, 1:26 pm

[Possum Kingdom]

My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.


Damn. I forgot about this one. Has anyone heard it?

Listening to TDTH Demos now and this version of Where Fishes Go is right there with the live version. I've been so jaded with Live lately that I forget I have gems like this in my catalog.

This post has been edited by Possum Kingdom: Oct 30 2018, 4:13 pm

[mattyeagles]

My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.
Damn. I forgot about this one. Has anyone heard it?

Listening to TDTH Demos now and this version of Where Fishes Go is right there with the live version. I've been so jaded with Live lately that I forget I have gems like this in my catalog.

Yup, those songs incredible. Where can I find again?

[Bremang]

My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.


Damn. I forgot about this one. Has anyone heard it?

Keep an eye out in 2024

This post has been edited by Bremang: Oct 30 2018, 5:54 pm

[SecretInsomnia]

Ah, nice and interesting writing by Chad, long time ago that I read that.

If things went just a little bit different, we would have had a second Throwing Copper in the 90ies. Image THAT! 1998-LIVE was capable of doing that.

Don’t get me wrong, the thing that became TDTH is still a masterpiece, but sometimes, especially when I read such things, I realise how much more briljant music could have made or be released and how only a little bit came our way.

[Bremang]

Throwing Copper was gone forever in 1996. It was never coming back

[LiveFan92]

This is what he said in his letter response...
And this from a post he made on the old WD message board:

Thank you for sharing! I had missed all of that and find it extremely interesting.

[LiveFan92]

My favorite demo is Transmission, a Dahlheimer track infused with great lyrics and singing by Ed.

Um, is this floating around out there somewhere? It sounds like an incredible track...

[Merica]

Thank you for sharing! I had missed all of that and find it extremely interesting.

There's plenty more where that came from. If you've really never read CT's letter response before then you're in for an absolute treat. Check out this thread. (His actual response comes somewhere around page 13-14 I think).

Um, is this floating around out there somewhere? It sounds like an incredible track...

Not that I'm aware of, sadly.

[+Ed+]

Those were the times huh