Ed talks about Chris Shinn, and 90s nostalgia Options

[Bremang]

That may be true, but the band struggled to draw crowds on the road, and those "hardcore" fans weren't enough to sustain the new version of Live.

Live is still trying to recover from Live 2.0, and the messy split.

Live is trying to recover from aging past 29 years old.

Live 3.0 is yet to draw a crowd on their own outside of Australia or South Africa for one night, right? Is there ever a crowd for Live on this Counting Crows tour?

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jul 13 2018, 11:09 pm

[promiseIma Livefan]

The Turn bombed on the charts, the band barely toured once the album was released, and Chris Shinn couldn't remember lyrics.

Live 2.0 fell flat.

True. But V also bombed the charts and fell flat. As did Birds of Pray. As did SFBM. A least with the Turn we got a good rock album. And yes Chris would at times forget lyrics. But at least he sung with grit and passion, and never shook his ass to the ladies while on stage. And if love lounge is indicative of the direction Live is going their albums will continue to bomb and fall flat AND we will get stuck with crappy music. And I do not put this all on Ed. CCP showed they still had what it takes to make good music without Ed bringing them down. Shame on them for running back to him. It’s like when someone breaks up with a person because they are not good for them. They are then allowed to grow as a person and be themselves. But over time they get uncomfortable with their better selves and new life because of all the uncertainties. So they crawl back to their ex knowing they are no good but at least there is familiarity. That’s exactly what CCP did. It’s a damn shame that such a great band has fallen so hard.

This post has been edited by promiseIma Livefan: Jul 14 2018, 6:44 am

[Existentialist]

I guess how you define success depends on why you're a fan of the band. Live 2.0 was great if it's about the music. Live 3.0 is better if it's about being a cheerleader for nearly 50 year old dudes. But, it's not like they're on some arena tour either; they're Grouponing tickets to shows where they're the opening act.

This post has been edited by Existentialist: Jul 14 2018, 6:45 am

[SJN1279]

I guess how you define success depends on why you're a fan of the band. Live 2.0 was great if it's about the music. Live 3.0 is better if it's about being a cheerleader for nearly 50 year old dudes. But, it's not like they're on some arena tour either; they're Grouponing tickets to shows where they're the opening act.

Better to open for the Counting Crows on a Livenation tour in ampitheaters, than open for Everclear on four band shows in small theaters.

[SJN1279]

True. But V also bombed the charts and fell flat. As did Birds of Pray. As did SFBM. A least with the Turn we got a good rock album. And yes Chris would at times forget lyrics. But at least he sung with grit and passion, and never shook his ass to the ladies while on stage. And if love lounge is indicative of the direction Live is going their albums will continue to bomb and fall flat AND we will get stuck with crappy music. And I do not put this all on Ed. CCP showed they still had what it takes to make good music without Ed bringing them down. Shame on them for running back to him. It’s like when someone breaks up with a person because they are not good for them. They are then allowed to grow as a person and be themselves. But over time they get uncomfortable with their better selves and new life because of all the uncertainties. So they crawl back to their ex knowing they are no good but at least there is familiarity. That’s exactly what CCP did. It’s a damn shame that such a great band has fallen so hard.

On Billboard, V charted 22, BOP charted 27, SFBM charted 52, The Turn charted 137.

V and BOP had songs do well on the radio, especially BOP with Heaven.

[promiseIma Livefan]

On Billboard, V charted 22, BOP charted 27, SFBM charted 52, The Turn charted 137.

V and BOP had songs do well on the radio, especially BOP with Heaven.

You’ve made it clear over the years that you care more about how much money the band makes over the quality of the music; and that’s fine you have the right to feel that way. I have heard local bands with no record deals play great music while there was crap playing on the radio. If love lounge made it to number one I would be happy for the guys but it would still be a horrible song that I would never listen to. I don’t play horrible music that make my ears bleed and think “it’s ok though, it charted and its making money so I will suffer through this for the artist”. That does not enhance my life whatsoever. I have played both the turn and the gracious few to several people who were not familiar with Live (shocking considering, according to you, all the great success they have had in the 2000s) and they greatly enjoyed those albums. For us, as fans, that’s what is important. For Live, despite what they have said otherwise, it’s obvious they care more about the money. It’s fine, it’s their lives and they have family to provide for so I try not to judge but it sucks for us who just want some damn good music.

This post has been edited by promiseIma Livefan: Jul 14 2018, 10:03 am

[Bremang]

Better to open for the Counting Crows on a Livenation tour in ampitheaters, than open for Everclear on four band shows in small theaters.

Even if the amphitheater crowd is empty and disinterested and the small theater is packed and engaged?

[Bremang]

So they crawl back to their ex knowing they are no good but at least there is familiarity. That’s exactly what CCP did.

no, it's for the $

[promiseIma Livefan]

no, it's for the $

You’re exactly right. But it’s the familiarity of the original four that potentially makes them a little more money. It’s sad because if they had been smarter with marketing and promoting the Gracious Few I believe that could have went somewhere. But who knows.

[alexou]

You’re exactly right. But it’s the familiarity of the original four that potentially makes them a little more money. It’s sad because if they had been smarter with marketing and promoting the Gracious Few I believe that could have went somewhere. But who knows.

And with how it's going, with a second drummer and the way Pat was put aside again (he doesn't shine on PLOTR as he was with Shinn), I reallyvquestion CG and Pat's involvement in the new music. Maybe they just cash in. And it's sad to bench a good bass player like that, and he is in the sideline since TDTH!

[Bob]

A least with the Turn we got a good rock album. And yes Chris would at times forget lyrics. But at least he sung with grit and passion, and never shook his ass to the ladies while on stage. And if love lounge is indicative of the direction Live is going their albums will continue to bomb and fall flat AND we will get stuck with crappy music. And I do not put this all on Ed. CCP showed they still had what it takes to make good music without Ed bringing them down. Shame on them for running back to him. It’s like when someone breaks up with a person because they are not good for them. They are then allowed to grow as a person and be themselves. But over time they get uncomfortable with their better selves and new life because of all the uncertainties. So they crawl back to their ex knowing they are no good but at least there is familiarity. That’s exactly what CCP did. It’s a damn shame that such a great band has fallen so hard.

I complete agree with this sentiment, and you've put the current situation into words that I've been struggling to find since I saw them a few weeks ago, though really since Live 3.0. The best I had was it felt like Live was covering Live songs; something just felt off. This analogy is so much better. Shinn (and Kevin Martin, FWIW) gave passion and fire to Live that was lost for many years. Kevin Martin also proves that you can be an almost 50-something and still rock the shit out of the stage. Shinn as well, but he's a baby at 43.

I also agree with Bremang's comment about how it's much better to play in a packed intimate club than a gigantic empty-ish amphitheater, but I'd take that stance with any gig. The potential to lose intimacy in a giant open-air theater is much greater than in a small club with the capacity to hold ~1000, like the Chameleon Club, where you're basically on top of each other. At the Auburn show, everyone was sitting down, behaving themselves and drinking their beer, unless Ed told them to stand up or to turn on their flashlight app on their phone for a song and wave it around like a modern day lighter. There's no way in hell you'd get that kind of crowd response at the Chameleon.

There have also been some comments about the decision to release Love Lounge instead of that other song that we heard a clip of from Ed's Instagram, and I too think it's a weird one. I've listened to that clip about 20 times and really enjoyed it, where I've listened to LL a total of about 10 times (13 if you include the two different videos and seeing it live), and don't care to listen to it ever again. I thought their worst song to date was Sanctity of Dreams, but LL easily kicks its ass, and that's saying something.

On a personal level, as a musician that started playing because of Live, this experience has reminded me that whenever I'm on stage, regardless of if I'm performing for the staff or a packed house, to always put my all into it, encourage my other bandmates to do the same, and to engage the crowd as much as possible.

[lylebeach]

But it’s the familiarity of the original four that potentially makes them a little more money.

Honestly, out of every person throughout my Live fanboy years, when I would ask if they knew +Live+ I'd say that pretty close to 95% of the people I talked to didn't have a clue who Live even is/was.

The crowds that they are playing to now? I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the people there wouldn't realize if Ed got switched out with Shinn. I'd take a guess that they don't even realize that the band split up and that this is even a "reunion tour". I think we get a little to excited in here because we are obviously huge Live fans, otherwise we wouldn't be on a message board for them. But the majority of people don't know who the hell Ed Kowalcyzk is. Live are now catering to a crowd that is like, "oh ya... I think I remember this song..." Instead of playing to us hardcore fans.



This post has been edited by lylebeach: Jul 16 2018, 10:44 am

[likeido21]

Honestly, out of every person throughout my Live fanboy years, when I would ask if they knew +Live+ I'd say that pretty close to 95% of the people I talked to didn't have a clue who Live even is/was.

The crowds that they are playing to now? I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the people there wouldn't realize if Ed got switched out with Shinn. I'd take a guess that they don't even realize that the band split up and that this is even a "reunion tour". I think we get a little to excited in here because we are obviously huge Live fans, otherwise we wouldn't be on a message board for them. But the majority of people don't know who the hell Ed Kowalcyzk is. Live are now catering to a crowd that is like, "oh ya... I think I remember this song..." Instead of playing to us hardcore fans.

Couldn't agree more!

Even when I Alone was at its height, I remember talking about music with some friends, and someone was like "Oh yeah thats the band with the guy with the pony tail thing?"

[lylebeach]

Even when I Alone was at its height, I remember talking about music with some friends, and someone was like "Oh yeah thats the band with the guy with the pony tail thing?"

And the dude who forgot his drums!

Checking you out Beavis!

[Bremang]

And the dude who forgot his drums!

Checking you out Beavis!

aw man good stuff