The last 4 years were just a dream! Options

[Tips]

"Chris who? Oh yeah, the singer from Blind Melon and Unified Theory? Yeah we toured with him at some point in the 90's. Nice guy.

The Turn? What is that? We have a record called The Turn? No, the last Live record was Songs From Black Mountain. Or maybe you're thinking of our live album but that was called Live at the Paradiso.

Siren's Call? Well Chad has a riff that sounds like that but it was never used on a song.

No the band went on hiatus in 2009, Ed did his two solo records and the rest of the guys formed The Gracious Few but that's it. So I don't know what you guys are on about with Chris Shinn and The Turn or whatever it's supposed to be called.

Oh yeah and this is a picture of us now. Yeah yeah we all look like that, it's not an old picture. "

Does anyone else get the feeling that this is how this whole relaunch is? Like they're trying to pretend like nothing since 2012 happened and that everything was always good between them. I feel disrespected as a fan that they would obliterate the last 4 years. Those years happened, they're part of Live's history. They all should man up and stay honest with their us. And I say 'all' not to put the 'blame' on one person because we don't know how it works behind closed doors.

You know, not wanting to play any of The Turn live is one thing. Not even putting the record on the official website, that's just being revisionists.

[Merica]

We'll get a better sense of it when they start doing interviews. Obviously at that point any interviewer worth a shit will pry, and their answers will be telling. But so far, yeah, it would seem like they're trying to pretend it never happened. Wonder if they'll let it stay up on Spotify.

[FishOutaWater]

Someone on here made a pretty good statement yesterday. This is not the only time we will ever hear from Live again about the reunion. They will probably try to get on Howard Stern knowing Chad Taylor. But there will definitely be more opporunities for a less scripted recounting of what has happened. This was basically just a press release. I wouldn't expect them to dive into a discussion about Chris Shinn and The Turn in a forward-looking press release about their reunion and plans for a World Tour and new music with Ed. That makes no sense. And now that they are a band together with Ed as the lead singer, it makes sense to me that they wouldn't be selling the album with Chris Shinn as lead singer on the website, any more than they would be selling posters of the band with Chris Shinn on them. I am guessing you will still be able to but The Turn on iTunes or Amazon and they they are not ripping it off of the market. When Howard Stern or Pierre Robert of MMR interviews Chad and Ed about what happened over the last 6 years, I am sure that there will be some more planned spin. But I wouldn't expect anything different. I certainly don't expect them to talk positively about Chris Shinn and how great The Turn is now that they are a band with Ed.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Dec 13 2016, 10:48 am

[Merica]

I certainly don't expect them to talk positively about Chris Shinn and how great The Turn is now that they are a band with Ed. That makes no sense.

Well I mean, they're not bitchy girls in high school.

And I know what you mean about not mentioning Shinn in the press release, but then... up until that point he was the singer in the band. I think it's perfectly fine and appropriate to throw him a customary sentence thanking him and wishing him well, and saying it was an amicable parting regardless of what actually happened.

[Unsheathed]

It's the first official announcement. More will come later. People clamoring for new material ASAP or B-side releases ASAP are being a little unrealistic, in my opinion. These guys are trying to work together while not killing each other in the process; that may take time.

From my perspective, it doesn't seem like they are pretending to be young, or ignoring the past. It seems like they want to pick up where they left off before V was released and Ed took over.

Bill (TheThrill)'s little post about Chris being without balls leads me to believe that something happened behind the scenes, or it could have just been an idiotic remark, who knows. Based on that statement alone, I believe there could have been a falling out with Chris.

[FishOutaWater]

Funny thing is, there is nothing on the record yet stating Chris Shinn is no longer in Live. His name hasn't even been mentioned since we last knew of him as the lead singer of Live. Funny. That would seem to be a necessary step in the transition process. Maybe they have two lead singers - at least until they confirm for the record Shinn is out of the band.

At some point, they probably do owe some closure to all of the fans that CCP worked so hard to convince that they should gather around Chris Shinn and accept him into Live. I disagree with The Thrill that the fansa are owed nothing. When a band looses its iconic lead singer, who was the visible lead man who made the band what it is at the peak of its popularity, and the drummer, bassist and guitarist ask the fans to follow them into the next life of the band with a different unknown lead singer, those are pretty much the band's hardest core fans. CCP did a lot to convince fans that they should accept Chris Shinn as the new lead singer. At this point in time, Shinn has vanished and they announced the Ed reunion and there is nothing at all to close the gap with those hard core fans who have followed CCP into the dark Abis of the shut-down during the hiatus, The Gracious Few, Chris Shinn and The Turn and now back to Ed, seeing them in dive bars and buying tickets to festivals just to see them play, all while the rest of the world's awareness of Live remained little more than enjoying a listen to I Alone when it was played on the Lithium channel on Sirius. I do think that at the very least, Live owes those fans an actual confirmation that Chris Shinn, the lead singer CCP tried so hard to convince everyone to accept, is no longer the lead singer of the band and that they wish him well and thank him for his time in the band.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Dec 13 2016, 11:13 am

[Tips]

This was basically just a press release. I wouldn't expect them to dive into a discussion about Chris Shinn and The Turn in a forward-looking press release about their reunion and plans for a World Tour and new music with Ed. That makes no sense. And now that they are a band together with Ed as the lead singer, it makes sense to me that they wouldn't be selling the album with Chris Shinn as lead singer on the website, any more than they would be selling posters of the band with Chris Shinn on them. I am guessing you will still be able to but The Turn on iTunes or Amazon and they they are not ripping it off of the market. When Howard Stern or Pierre Robert of MMR interviews Chad and Ed about what happened over the last 6 years, I am sure that there will be some more planned spin. But I wouldn't expect anything different. I certainly don't expect them to talk positively about Chris Shinn and how great The Turn is now that they are a band with Ed.

Well I mean, they're not bitchy girls in high school.

And I know what you mean about not mentioning Shinn in the press release, but then... up until that point he was the singer in the band. I think it's perfectly fine and appropriate to throw him a customary sentence thanking him and wishing him well, and saying it was an amicable parting regardless of what actually happened.

Well no I didn't expect them to talk about The Turn on their press release. Maybe they could have winked at Christ but I didn't expect that either.

But if you're putting up a merch section and all the Live records are there except The Turn, that's not innocent. That's obliterating.

CCP decided to release The Turn under the Live moniker. Everyone should accept that and it should be put up there with the rest. If they weren't ready to bear the consequences of that decision, they should have let go of the Live name and created a new band. When I bought The Turn, I bought a Live record. Never mind who sung on it or who wrote the songs.

Take Tears for Fears. They split in 1990 to reunite in 2003. Roland Orzabal released two records, Elemental and Raoul and the Kings of Spain, as Tears for Fears and Tomcats Screaming Outside as Roland Orzabal. Curt Smith released several records as Mayfield and as Curt Smith. When they play live now, they play songs from the Elemental and Raoul even if Curt Smith wasn't in the band when they were record and were basically Roland Orzabal solo records. But they don't play anything from their respective solo records. That's accepting your history as it is. They're not pretending they had a 13 years hiatus during which Tears for Fears didn't exist in any shape or form.

[vivapokey]

It's the first official announcement. More will come later. People clamoring for new material ASAP or B-side releases ASAP are being a little unrealistic, in my opinion. These guys are trying to work together while not killing each other in the process; that may take time.

From my perspective, it doesn't seem like they are pretending to be young, or ignoring the past. It seems like they want to pick up where they left off before V was released and Ed took over.

Bill (TheThrill)'s little post about Chris being without balls leads me to believe that something happened behind the scenes, or it could have just been an idiotic remark, who knows. Based on that statement alone, I believe there could have been a falling out with Chris.

Leaning more towards that. If anything didn't have balls it was that announcement yesterday.

Regardless of how things ended with Chris, at least through a quick social media scoop, he still seems to be friends with a lot of important Live people so I think his removal is more a professional thing. They definitely don't need to dedicate a whole page to him in their press release about a reunion, but Merica is right, its a shame they didn't acknowledge, thank, and at least close the chapter.

What is heartening though is seeing the support for Chris on facebook with lots of people showing him love. Regardless of what you thought of him, it must be a bit of a shitty time for him just now. He's also certainly not disgraced himself in public by lashing out at Live or anything. He's an amazing guy, I only spoke to him in person for 15mins but from that alone you can tell the quality person he is so regardless of what happens with Live I'll be following him and his music.

Regardless of how the relationship with Chris ended, the majority of the 4 years CCP were with him they sung his praises a lot and his work on The Turn and such were repeatedly praised. It wasn't like SFBM days when they praised a singer/album they apparently hated just to keep the peace and tow the line - here, CCP were the ones in charge and calling the shots. So unless they were completely and utterly lying through their teeth the entire time, which obviously they weren't, then they loved what they did with Chris and I hope in time it gets its recognition.
To me, personally, as I've said before ... I think it makes the most sense that Chris/The Turn is being black listed because of Ed. I imagine it was one of Ed's demands when they talked compromises. A few sources have said Ed's ego is well and truly still there and I can see him not wanting the shadow of Chris/The Turn there when he comes back. I think it's petty, but I also sort of understand his POV. And I assume with this give and take compromises came other things like Ed being exonerated of wrong doing and CCP getting Ed to agree to writing together and cutting back on SFBM type material when touring etc. So its possibly not even CCP's wish to blacklist The Turn, but maybe that's just part of the agreement.

This post has been edited by vivapokey: Dec 13 2016, 11:25 am

[Hoodstock]

Man, if you guys dated a girl for twenty years, had a falling out and banged another girl for a while, and then got back together with your original girl you all wouldn't be talking up that break up period like it was the best thing ever. You would appreciate it for what it was, keep your mouth shut about it, and move on with your life.

Thats The Turn. It was fun and hopefully they become a better band because of it.

It's not the same as TGF. They threw Live's name on that album. Obviously it got Ed's attention and they worked it out.

If people here aren't excited for new music from CCP because Ed is attached to it I'm sorry for you. They are still the same musicians who put out TGF and The Turn.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Dec 13 2016, 11:48 am

[CTFD40]

Full disclosure: I've been a fan since 1994 and used to be extremely involved in the AOL boards and fan sites up until 15 years ago. Since then, I guess you could say I've been a lurker. And I'm using my first post here.

I, too, wish that we had some sort of explanation as to what happened with Chris. I have followed Live for more than half my life and stuck with them during the split and embraced Chris as not only an artist but as an all around decent human being. I wasn't "Team Ed" or "Team CCCP or Else!" but I did stick with my favorite band. And Chris helped them make music that was sorely missed after, in my opinion, TDTH. I think that no matter how ugly the history, Chris is part of that history and it shouldn't be ignored. The statement that he didn't have balls does elude to an issue but after what I've seen from the person who wrote it initially, I can't be sure.

Just my two cents.

[Tips]

Man, if you guys dated a girl for twenty years, had a falling out and banged another girl for a while, and then got back together with your original girl you all wouldn't be talking up that break up period like it was the best thing ever. You would appreciate it for what it was, keep your mouth shut about it, and move on with your life.

Thats The Turn. It was fun and hopefully they become a better band because of it.

It's not the same as TGF. They threw Live's name on that album. Obviously it got Ed's attention and they worked it out.

If people here aren't excited for new music from CCP because Ed is attached to it I'm sorry for you. They are still the same musicians who put out TGF and The Turn.

What the bloody hell are you on about? Who's talking about not being excited about new music in this thread? Who's talking about Ed being attached to it in this thread?

As for your comparison I don't think it's valid. It's not going back with your girlfriend, it's a band. A band can have several members in the course of its life. Pretending that, at some point, an original member had left is childish at best.

[Bremang]

Shinn is quiet as a mouse

[Tips]

Full disclosure: I've been a fan since 1994 and used to be extremely involved in the AOL boards and fan sites up until 15 years ago. Since then, I guess you could say I've been a lurker. And I'm using my first post here.

I, too, wish that we had some sort of explanation as to what happened with Chris. I have followed Live for more than half my life and stuck with them during the split and embraced Chris as not only an artist but as an all around decent human being. I wasn't "Team Ed" or "Team CCCP or Else!" but I did stick with my favorite band. And Chris helped them make music that was sorely missed after, in my opinion, TDTH. I think that no matter how ugly the history, Chris is part of that history and it shouldn't be ignored. The statement that he didn't have balls does elude to an issue but after what I've seen from the person who wrote it initially, I can't be sure.

Just my two cents.

Exactly my point, I agree 100%. I don't care who's the singer or even what goes on behind closed doors. The band is a mutable entity and that's fine. But they have to accept it. Again I say they because, even though it looks like Ed wants to wipe out that part of Live, it may not be the case. Again, that internal politics. But erasing part of the band, that's public.

[vivapokey]

Shinn is quiet as a mouse

I don't really blame him, if he spoke out on anything he'd be heavily criticised and I never got the vibe from him he was that kind of guy.

In the same spirit as the "Ed follows CT on instagram!" stuff, its perhaps worth noting Chris is still friends on facebook with all of CCP's personal accounts as well as other close Live friends and family. I don't think the break was as brutally bitter as something people think it was but I'm sure still disappointing for Chris and for CCP too.

I hope in time that he'll be freely and publicly accepted as part of the band's history once the dust settles.

[mfitz804]

Funny thing is, there is nothing on the record yet stating Chris Shinn is no longer in Live. His name hasn't even been mentioned since we last knew of him as the lead singer of Live. Funny. That would seem to be a necessary step in the transition process. Maybe they have two lead singers - at least until they confirm for the record Shinn is out of the band.

They put out a press release (or whatever you want to call it) stating that the original members are going to tour and put out new music. Did they also need to say "and Chris Shinn is out of the band", or is that kind of implied?