Ed never stole from his bandmates, according to a source close to the band Options

[vivapokey]

Then move on and go away. Your loss, It's that simple. Go find another band to like. You and world dreamer are looking for it to "add up". It doesn't need to add up to you. It just needs to add up to the guys. And yes. Their friendship is stronger than ever. This isn't something that happened yesterday. Been well over a year in the making and they wanted to make sure the friendship was healed before anything musically could even be engaged. They repaired this over a long time. So, if you think this is about money. They don't need the money, the 4 of them have plenty. They are doing this because the 4 of them created something special and they want it to go on.
Spare me the "we are their number one fans. We deserve answers for supporting them over the years." You know how many "fans" killed the music industry for bands all
Over?? Almost everyone of them. Ripping music, sharing bootlegs, selling unauthorized merch (although whoever made the Līve woman's panties was genius). Think about this. When you buy a book you have to buy the whole damn book. However, now you get to just buy one song and not the whole album. The artists make an allbum as a body of work. It wasn't meant to be fractured apart and all the people who supported that kind of crap is at fault. Maybe all the band in the world should demand an explaination as to why "fans" did that to them? But they don't demand answers. They just continue to play. Nobody is perfect, and nobody is guaranteed anything in life.

Just keep on contradicting everything you've been saying for years, spin it company man, spin it!

[World Dreamer]

Then move on and go away. Your loss, It's that simple. Go find another band to like. You and world dreamer are looking for it to "add up". It doesn't need to add up to you. It just needs to add up to the guys. And yes. Their friendship is stronger than ever. This isn't something that happened yesterday. Been well over a year in the making and they wanted to make sure the friendship was healed before anything musically could even be engaged. They repaired this over a long time. So, if you think this is about money. They don't need the money, the 4 of them have plenty. They are doing this because the 4 of them created something special and they want it to go on.
Spare me the "we are their number one fans. We deserve answers for supporting them over the years." You know how many "fans" killed the music industry for bands all
Over?? Almost everyone of them. Ripping music, sharing bootlegs, selling unauthorized merch (although whoever made the Līve woman's panties was genius). Think about this. When you buy a book you have to buy the whole damn book. However, now you get to just buy one song and not the whole album. The artists make an allbum as a body of work. It wasn't meant to be fractured apart and all the people who supported that kind of crap is at fault. Maybe all the band in the world should demand an explaination as to why "fans" did that to them? But they don't demand answers. They just continue to play. Nobody is perfect, and nobody is guaranteed anything in life.

This might be the funniest post I have read on here.

[World Dreamer]

For those who want to be a doubting thomas, all I say is look, give these 4 guys a chance.

Just curious of how many people said/thought this when Shinn was announced as the new singer.

[World Dreamer]

There's an ignore feature??? Why didn't I know of this. I am ignoring some people!!! Don't need their negative BS. Some good shit is happening and they are like bah humbug

Okay, maybe THIS is the funniest post I have read on here.

[Bremang]

You know how many "fans" killed the music industry for bands all
Over?? Almost everyone of them. Ripping music, sharing bootlegs, selling unauthorized merch (although whoever made the Līve woman's panties was genius). Think about this. When you buy a book you have to buy the whole damn book. However, now you get to just buy one song and not the whole album. The artists make an allbum as a body of work. It wasn't meant to be fractured apart and all the people who supported that kind of crap is at fault. Maybe all the band in the world should demand an explaination as to why "fans" did that to them? But they don't demand answers. They just continue to play. Nobody is perfect, and nobody is guaranteed anything in life.

the music industry pushed the concept of tracks and albums to the fans and demanded this format of the artist. Plus, many artists embrace making songs that stand alone. Your argument has almost nothing to do with Live's opinion of the industry.

[vivapokey]

Okay, maybe THIS is the funniest post I have read on here.

Seconding. It's VERY inconvenient when you're just trying to post all your lies and people keep picking holes in your flimsy story. Much better when you can press the ignore button and carry on lying to the people who will happily gobble it up. On this theme, I kind of think it would be appropriate for the countdown to actually end with a visual graphic of the band Live practicing the art of scatology all over its customers (not known as fans anymore).

Also disappointing Bill couldn't give us his super accurate inside information on what everyone thinks of Ed's treatment of the band during the split. Like his smash hit song "Parasite" and claiming he always wrote all the Live stuff etc, all the non-thiefy stuff.

This post has been edited by vivapokey: Dec 12 2016, 12:40 am

[Wambangalang]

I dunno, using the ignore feature always brings the image of an ostrich sticking its head in the sand into my mind. Why would anyone opt not to get the whole picture in the context of opinions and daily discussion on a message board?

And yes like pokey said, that is exactly why I would never ignore anyone, I don't happily gobble up peoples views or version of events like some hardcore blind fan. That is why when this Thrill joker was doing the exact same thing 7 years ago and stating as "fact" that Ed was this or this or that, I rolled my eyes and quietly said to myself; not taking sides in this shit show.

I am simultaneously critical of the way CCP went about airing their dirty laundry, curious about the mystery of Ed's actions and suspicious about how he handled himself in the aftermath, worried by the new direction that this band could possibly be going in with Ed (but happy at the same time he's back), ecstatic with what we got Live 2.0 and gracious few and underwhelmed by Ed's output during the same time (except in concert, he was great), defensive of Chris Shinn when people bash him (in the past and now, amazingly, from former "friends"), and just intrigued this saga is still going on, for better or worse. To ignore any single person on here would be taking away from the big picture. Or maybe no one has ever annoyed me enough.

This post has been edited by Wambangalang: Dec 12 2016, 6:29 am

[vivapokey]

I think the ignore thing works best if both parties agree to it anyways. And I can respect that Wam, totally. There's some people who don't want to hear anything about this side of things, then this probably wasn't the thread for them.

I personally don't mind if people put me on ignore, some already have and that's cool. I have nothing really super important to say. I'm just voicing my opinion like the rest of us and not claiming I'm 100% factually right...even if I do have sources that contradict a lot of what Bill says.

I find it ironic though that a lot of us who feel the way we do and believe what we believe were "created" (for lack of a better term) by Bill and co. They so strongly and passionately lead the charge of what was "right" for so long. If you didn't jump on board then my hat is off to you. What Bill and co. fail to realise though is that they have the benefit of being as close to the situation as they are. With all the finer detailed points at hand and they've had a long time to work it through. It's just unreasonable to expect fans they lead down a path to instantly change their mind when they don't have the same experience they've had. So even IF Bill is telling the truth, you'd think he'd be prepared for people not to believe him, that it would be a long healing process to try and win those fans back around. To think "ok we are going to cop some flak for this, but we were the ones who created this mess so we are going to take this on the chin and play the long game". Instead we got insults flying immediately off the handle and absolute zero accountability and zero care shown to long term Live fans who supported the band through the split.

there's probably not a lot more to say on the topic at hand really.

[Wambangalang]

this Thrill is the one here doing all of the band's dirty work as it were. I don't blame him, don't know him, but he sounds like a super fan and probably is trying to be supportive of his favourite band, whoever the lead singer may be at the time. In reality it is Ed, Chad, Chad and Pat who have the real control of information and direction of the discourse at this time if they so wish, but they, collectively, have decided so far not to focus on certain aspects of their story and it does seem like by doing so they have left chris shinn in the dust. That is kind of lame, but as I always say, I'm still on board.

[Merica]

Wam seems like a great bunch of lads.

Genuinely. I'm a Wam fan, fam.

[vivapokey]

Yeah I'm not sure how much more can be gleaned out of this particular part of the Live story. Myself and others are skeptical, Bill and the guys are either unwilling or unable to provide more information so it'll probably just go in circles.

I can appreciate Bill supporting his friends. I just don't think its appropriate to try and bury Chris while you're doing it and I think its really poor form the way this news was handled and fans who didn't immediately jump on board were treated. But that is obviously a decision behind closed doors they've come to in order to play it this way. If thats the case then yeah, I don't think going around in circles will solve much.

Its hard to believe it was a year ago I was still riding on a high from the best Live concert I've seen since 1997 and I had such huge support for them. That's probably one thing that is lost in all of this. Make no mistake about it, I've been a Live fan for almost as long as they have existed as a band. I supported them through and through with the split with Ed and releasing The Turn. All that I am disappointed in and frustrated about comes from a place where the band, the music, meant, or means so much to me. I'm not being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. I'm not "trolling". It all stems from a passion which was as white hot as it has ever been only 12 months ago.

[Toph]

Yeah I'm not sure how much more can be gleaned out of this particular part of the Live story. Myself and others are skeptical, Bill and the guys are either unwilling or unable to provide more information so it'll probably just go in circles.

I can appreciate Bill supporting his friends. I just don't think its appropriate to try and bury Chris while you're doing it and I think its really poor form the way this news was handled and fans who didn't immediately jump on board were treated. But that is obviously a decision behind closed doors they've come to in order to play it this way. If thats the case then yeah, I don't think going around in circles will solve much.

Its hard to believe it was a year ago I was still riding on a high from the best Live concert I've seen since 1997 and I had such huge support for them. That's probably one thing that is lost in all of this. Make no mistake about it, I've been a Live fan for almost as long as they have existed as a band. I supported them through and through with the split with Ed and releasing The Turn. All that I am disappointed in and frustrated about comes from a place where the band, the music, meant, or means so much to me. I'm not being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. I'm not "trolling". It all stems from a passion which was as white hot as it has ever been only 12 months ago.

I so understand you...
I was also excited when The Turn came out. I remember listening every day a new snippet of the album in the videos the band posted with explanations of the creative process. What an album! I still enjoy it sooo much. As they revived the Live spirit, they were reviving my love for this band.
I was happy for them having finally found a way to continue the Live story with somebody who fully joined them in their creative aspirations. They looked so happy when releasing The Turn. So happy when being on stage when I saw them in Antwerpen. So happy when going off the record (for those who remember). This part of their story was imho the most sincere in years.
And now. Now we are back in 2006 as if SFBM was their latest attempt? Really? We should forget all what happened from 1997 to 2009 and that Chad gave us in details through his blog? Following the reading of this blog, I had a bad taste in mouth when rethinking about the first time I saw them in concert in 2005. Despite it was a good moment, I can barely think positively about it knowing the real situation behind the scenes. And I will always have a bad taste in mouth when listening to Ed, even in his oldest recordings with Live. And now, with the way they are considering Chris and his input in the Live history, I fear I will also have a very bad taste in mouth when listening to those individuals again. I really hope they will have balls enough to explain what motivates this new turn 180° (but I am not sure it has something to do with artistic integrity). I really hope they will have balls enough to acknowledge Chris for the nice moments shared (even if their new/old frontman does not agree to communicate about it anymore). But mostly, I really hope... that I will hear more music from Chris soon, because this guy is one of the greatest vocalist I have ever heard! From UT to TT, every single piece of music he recorded is full of musical creativity (even if he did not write everything on any of these albums) and musical integrity. The same cannot be said for others...

This post has been edited by Toph: Dec 12 2016, 9:59 am

[Dana]

I have never made a single dime with music.

Don't you co-own the music studio?

This post has been edited by Dana: Dec 15 2016, 7:32 am

[Unsheathed]

Then move on and go away. Your loss, It's that simple. Go find another band to like. You and world dreamer are looking for it to "add up". It doesn't need to add up to you. It just needs to add up to the guys. And yes. Their friendship is stronger than ever. This isn't something that happened yesterday. Been well over a year in the making and they wanted to make sure the friendship was healed before anything musically could even be engaged. They repaired this over a long time. So, if you think this is about money. They don't need the money, the 4 of them have plenty. They are doing this because the 4 of them created something special and they want it to go on.
Spare me the "we are their number one fans. We deserve answers for supporting them over the years." You know how many "fans" killed the music industry for bands all
Over?? Almost everyone of them. Ripping music, sharing bootlegs, selling unauthorized merch (although whoever made the Līve woman's panties was genius). Think about this. When you buy a book you have to buy the whole damn book. However, now you get to just buy one song and not the whole album. The artists make an allbum as a body of work. It wasn't meant to be fractured apart and all the people who supported that kind of crap is at fault. Maybe all the band in the world should demand an explaination as to why "fans" did that to them? But they don't demand answers. They just continue to play. Nobody is perfect, and nobody is guaranteed anything in life.

What in the actual fuck is going on with this? How many excuses are you going to use? How many sides are you going to take? How much of the past are you going to ignore? Who are you going to shit on next when CCP or Ed tell you to?

[Bremang]

I have never made a single dime with music.

Think Loud Development
YCK Creative
United Fiber and Data
and Live
all go hand in hand. You definitely have a financial interest in the music being successful.