Story of Live, must watch Options

[Bremang]

But to say Ed "plagiarized" by copying "literary contexts" and then many artists "shunned" Ed...I would like to know more.

[Merica]

Yeah, more deets plz.

[FishOutaWater]

I am not aware of any of those accusations. Yes, Mental Jewelry is based entirely around concepts espoused by Jiddu Krishnamurti. But Krishnamurti did not write the lyrics and music. I think MJ is an amazingly brilliant articulation of Krishnamurti's philosophy and the lyrics are an original and creative brief articulation of complicated philosophies in song. The intellect is fine for counting money and recalling time. Fear is a letter that is never delivered by the postman of my fear. Mr. President I hereby pardon you of all your crimes, for they are just as much mine, for selfish and separation have led me to believe that the world is not my problem, but I am the world and you are the world. Those are just some examples of some brilliant stuff. The original philosophies aren't Ed's, but they are universal philosophies that are applied with some pretty astounding creativity. And the first 3 albums would have been nothing without CCP enveloping those lyrics in some perfectly integrated music..

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Dec 6 2016, 8:45 am

[vivapokey]

The biggest shame will be how Ed could never sing any of those lyrics again with a straight face

[TonyD]

The biggest shame will be how Ed could never sing any of those lyrics again with a straight face

You are such a wet blanket.

[vivapokey]

Sorry, it's the 16 continuous years of crap from Ed which has left me unable to anticipate anything positive from him. It's a shame when people want quality over complacency huh?


As for lyrics, personally I never thought Ed was an amazing lyricist. Even in the old days, best he did was pull out some great lines here or there, stolen or not. His real strength came in the delivery of the lyrics. It wasn't that he sang those words, it's the way he did. On paper they never really did much for me, even back in the day. But again I point to something like the Rhode Island bootleg. Holy shit did he make you believe he believed in what he was singing. Now days and for a long time, there is absolutely zero conviction in his voice. So singing those old words are hollow and empty, especially after all the devious crap he pulled.

Honestly, with this thread being called the story of Live...if that story ends for me with The Turn, I'm very happy. But if, IF, they manage an amazing album with Ed again then I'll admit that would be the biggest twist ending to a story Hollywood could only dream of writing. It would be a Fitzcaraldo level of Herculean effort.

[Gagball]

Sorry, it's the 16 continuous years of crap from Ed which has left me unable to anticipate anything positive from him. It's a shame when people want quality over complacency huh?
As for lyrics, personally I never thought Ed was an amazing lyricist. Even in the old days, best he did was pull out some great lines here or there, stolen or not. His real strength came in the delivery of the lyrics. It wasn't that he sang those words, it's the way he did. On paper they never really did much for me, even back in the day. But again I point to something like the Rhode Island bootleg. Holy shit did he make you believe he believed in what he was singing. Now days and for a long time, there is absolutely zero conviction in his voice. So singing those old words are hollow and empty, especially after all the devious crap he pulled.

Honestly, with this thread being called the story of Live...if that story ends for me with The Turn, I'm very happy. But if, IF, they manage an amazing album with Ed again then I'll admit that would be the biggest twist ending to a story Hollywood could only dream of writing. It would be a Fitzcaraldo level of Herculean effort.

I'm keeping an open mind but for me a big litmus test for whether this new venture has anything at all for me is what Ed does with the lyrics of Operation Spirit going forward. Does he sing them as originally written or does he put continue to put his "born-again" spin on it by changing "means nothing at all to me today" to "means a hell of a lot to me today." FFS that sucked...for me it absolutely gutted that song and flew in the face of what the band meant to me in the early years. I heard that change a few times but don't know if it's something he continued in his solo career (or even if he kept playing it much at all).

That said, I hope they're all happy and do whatever what makes them happy, fans be damned. Whatever happens with the music, it makes me very happy they they seem to have reconciled.

[Merica]

I'm keeping an open mind but for me a big litmus test for whether this new venture has anything at all for me is what Ed does with the lyrics of Operation Spirit going forward. Does he sing them as originally written or does he put continue to put his "born-again" spin on it by changing "means nothing at all to me today" to "means a hell of a lot to me today." FFS that sucked...for me it absolutely gutted that song and flew in the face of what the band meant to me in the early years. I heard that change a few times but don't know if it's something he continued in his solo career (or even if he kept playing it much at all).

I've said exactly this myself. It's fucking gross.

[World Dreamer]

Yeah, more deets plz.

I apologize. I completely forgot about this thread.

This is in no way a dodge, but there are no links to "prove" what I said about Ed. It is all from accounts of people close to Live AND people close to the folks that more or less found out Ed was full of shit and shunned him.

I will try to make this as crisp and as clean as I can. There will be two sides to this. The people I know close to Live and the people I know close to the folks that figured out Ed was full of it.

First, a VERY close source to CT told me that on one occasion CT said that Ed plagiarized (CT used the word "plagiarized") Krishnamurti. My source said that CT said Ed would read Krishnamurti and would "regurgitate" (CT's words) it for lyrics. I guess some would call that "inspiration". I don't know that I would.

Secondly, while my name is not Chris (if you are following other threads), I am located in Oklahoma. Ken Wilber is also from Oklahoma. If you do not know who that is then hit YouTube and google "Ken Wilber Avante Garde".

I have met Ken several times, but more importantly I have met a half dozen of his closest friends and still talk to them to this day. From their mouths I discovered that, back in the day, Ed would pal around with these "philosophical pioneers" but would never participate. He would just hang out.

Turns out many of the ideas and phrases that a group would come up with would end up in Live songs. And once these groups found out about it they basically shunned him. Told him to get lost.

Here is the kicker. Ed got the boot around the time of V. Now, from what I was told, Ken had a little more grace and that is how Ed ended up on the video with Ken singing Overcome, but somewhere around the V era Ed was told to get lost by these folks.

Connect the dots. V has some of the most shitty lyrics ever but are still trying to grasp the middle eastern Buddhist theme (which Ken talked about in detail). Then suddenly there is a radical shift to BoP Christianity. Then the worthless, bland lyrics of SFBM and his solo work? SFBM and beyond were all void of the deep, thought provoking lyrics. Why do you think that is? Because Ed lost his ability to write? Or maybe because Ed lost his free pass to groups of people who actually thought on a deeper level.

After all, Ed was a young man at the time. He wasn't Gandhi. He was a young kid who didn't know shit about shit.

I will also say this...I am never a fan of "sources", so I get it if my "sources" are met with skepticism...but please also use that same skepticism on the "sources" of the most popular thread on this board about Ed not doing anything wrong according to a "source" close to the band.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Dec 8 2016, 9:49 pm

[Wambangalang]

Ken Wilbur wrote a pretty flattering paragraph for Live in the Awake liner notes which was dated 2004, and talks about Ed being a frequent visitor to his website. I remember reading some of Ed's blogs back then and they were pretty convoluted, to say the least. Very heavily spiritual, transcending consciousness kind of stuff, way over my head at the time. But it didn't come across as disingenuous to me. Just made sense that the guy who wrote songs like we walk in the dream and the distance would be into that kind of shit.

After all, Ed was a young man at the time. He wasn't Gandhi. He was a young kid who didn't know shit about shit

That's exactly why none of what you said bothers me. I think that's the whole point. He/they were just a bunch of young guys and they just happened to be in a band and were interested in that subject matter. That subject matter existed in the form of krishnamurti's speeches and the different intellectual circles Ed was moving in and it will naturally come out in the music. The lyrics post V are not the only or even main thing that made the music deteriorate in quality. The sound and energy from the first 3 or 4 albums can't be plagiarised.

[Bremang]

I think it's flattering that Ed would canonize someone's words as lyrics in his songs. Plus, it's not like Ed was plagiarizing melodies he sang.

[World Dreamer]

I think it's flattering that Ed would canonize someone's words as lyrics in his songs. Plus, it's not like Ed was plagiarizing melodies he sang.

"Canonize" is generous. I'd probably go with "use a Thesaurus on.".

[Bremang]

Consciousness
Maya making shapes
Shapes that “live” and “die”, “come” and “go”
You almost had me Woman!
But I am standing under You now.
My back is straight,
Body strong,
Mind Empty
and
Completely Full.
You are the old hag and the supermodel!
Life and Death.
Pleasure and Pain.
And they have never been separate.

The dream vanishes into Primordial Union
As I hand back the apple
In every moment
Take it,
take it back,
Now and now and now,
Never again to be separate.
Never again.

My Lord, the price we paid for knowledge
The mistake we made in challenging Eternity
Blessed Being of Mercy, I kneel into Your Forever and Ever.
As we played out our ego-role
You waited in the Eternal, Present-Moment Garden
with the Patience of Father and the Unconditional Love of Mother.

You are the Heart of Religion.
So many Blessed Names for what is only One.
So many prayers in so many different tongues
And You Hear them all the same.
The Feeling of the Pure Heart is the Sound and Song of Love.
No difference, no possibility of distance.
All beings rejoicing in You.
In finding and being found.
One without a second.
Eternal Amen.

[World Dreamer]

I think it's flattering that Ed would canonize someone's words as lyrics in his songs. Plus, it's not like Ed was plagiarizing melodies he sang.

And don't forget the other side.

From what I have heard, Ed participated in circles that talked about all sorts of mystical shit and Ed ripped others peoples thoughts.

Example:

Person 1: Guys, life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.

Lyrics for new single: Oooooo child....ooooooOOOOOO.....life is like a box of chocolates....lawd....you nevah know what u gonnnnnnnnnaaaah get"

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Dec 8 2016, 11:32 pm

[World Dreamer]

Consciousness
Maya making shapes
Shapes that “live” and “die”, “come” and “go”
You almost had me Woman!
But I am standing under You now.
My back is straight,
Body strong,
Mind Empty
and
Completely Full.
You are the old hag and the supermodel!
Life and Death.
Pleasure and Pain.
And they have never been separate.

The dream vanishes into Primordial Union
As I hand back the apple
In every moment
Take it,
take it back,
Now and now and now,
Never again to be separate.
Never again.

My Lord, the price we paid for knowledge
The mistake we made in challenging Eternity
Blessed Being of Mercy, I kneel into Your Forever and Ever.
As we played out our ego-role
You waited in the Eternal, Present-Moment Garden
with the Patience of Father and the Unconditional Love of Mother.

You are the Heart of Religion.
So many Blessed Names for what is only One.
So many prayers in so many different tongues
And You Hear them all the same.
The Feeling of the Pure Heart is the Sound and Song of Love.
No difference, no possibility of distance.
All beings rejoicing in You.
In finding and being found.
One without a second.
Eternal Amen.

Posted in 2004.

So was this:

Hi, I’m Eddie Kowalczyk of the band LIVE. I’ve been known as Ed too, but all my friends call me Eddie. You’re on Integral Naked, so that makes me a friend, whether you like it or not

OK, here are some feathers in my cap. LIVE has sold more than 20 million albums worldwide. Their album “Throwing Copper” was recently acknowledged by MTV2 as one of the top 22 CD’s of all time. Most recently, the song “Heaven” from the 6th studio album, Birds of Pray, was one of the most played songs of the year 2003/04 at the Hot AC radio format.

But, of course, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

If you’re logged onto Integral Naked then you have noticed something happening. Consciousness is Here and Now and is shining like a silver lining. It is peeking out ever so slightly yet gloriously from behind the cloud of unknowing in this world.

Also, by being logged onto Integral Naked, you are somewhat aware of the fact that Ken Wilber is a god among men. Ken Wilber is actually only part human, the smallest part that walks, talks and, we assume, shaves his own head. The rest of the Wilber iceberg is all conscious lightning rod. Zipping, zapping, blasting around, combining, introducing, writing, creating, building and doing everything with an effortlessness and a smile that is awe-inspiring. Thanks Ken.

I read a “Brief History of Everything” in 1996. Finding that book, randomly laid on a table at Coliseum Books in NYC, changed my life forever. Upon finishing it, I knew why I was born, why everything is born, and where everything is headed