Chris Shinn in Retrospect Options

[World Dreamer]

Guys...you don't seem to understand/remember.

When World Dreamer says it is not debatable then it is not debatable.

[World Dreamer]

It is very debatable, musical taste is based on personal preference, that is a fact. Your Top 5 list is yours, and yours alone, you do not speak for everyone else.

See above post.

[throwing_cheetahs]

I wonder if Shinn wanted out of Live to go do his own thing before hearing Ed was coming back. Or he heard Ed was coming back and then left or was asked to leave.

This post has been edited by throwing_cheetahs: Nov 18 2016, 9:08 am

[vivapokey]

I wonder if Shinn wanted out of Live to go do his own thing before hearing Ed was coming back. Or he heard Ed was coming back and then left or was asked to leave.

I'm thinking they were already on the ropes about whether it was working, and I would not have been surprised that if there was always a sort of agreement in place that IF Ed ever properly reached out and said all the right things about returning under the right circumstances that Chris would step aside. I imagine it is a bit of a combination of all things really.

[Voodoo Lady]

Shinn definitely performed his own songs better than Ed's songs. 6310 was personal to him so yeah, Shinn was passionate about it. But he couldn't remember I alone lyrics to save his life. That should automatically disqualify someone from being Live's frontman. Shinn had his strengths an weaknesses. His voice shreds in concert but he lacks charisma on stage or in the interviews. I'm glad he stepped in, but I think CCP are just a bit above his level of talent. Not debatable. it is fact. haha

^Yes, yes, YES, yes, YES!
I tried to give Chris a chance. I bought The Turn and I listened to it. It was average. Not great, not horrible... just average. I think overall, it did rock harder than TDTH. TDTH has a bunch of songs on it that I skip over because they're not my style. But the good songs on it are damn good. And yea, that's my opinion. Those who love The Turn, I'm happy for you. I don't know about Chris' solo stuff or Unified Theory, maybe it is indeed good. But as said above, he lacked stage presence for Live and messing up I Alone lyrics ("chained to pain" hurt my soul ) is inexcusable. That just turns me off from wanting to check out his other stuff. I'm sure he's a good guy, as many of you here have said. And I'll reiterate that I appreciate the effort he gave to LIVE and for what he did for CCP.

Also an emphatic YES to the LIVE fan who mentioned Bob Dylan having put out stuff considered not so good and then BAM, a work of excellence arrives. I expect the same for LIVE. Countless artists do this. I mean, hello, it's their job and they have to eat. How many masterpieces can one put out in a row? As for Ed's style the latter years of LIVE and his solo work, it's just not my thing. It sounds terrible to me, but who's to say there's not Christian contemporary (?) music fans who think it's absolutely golden? And maybe it is when it comes to that genre of music. Artists explore other genres they love... I hear Steven Tyler is doing country lately. Geez, I even love the old country my grandma listened to--Dolly Parton, Conway Twitty, etc. I loved to watch Hee Haw with that woman. When a recent infomercial came on with a Hee Haw box set, oh my God, I'm not ashamed to say I was singing every word of those corny songs. It doesn't mean it's bad entertainment. CCP allowed Ed to place his other music love into the catalog of LIVE. It shouldn't have ever happened. But I don't see CCP allowing that ever again. I'm excited for what's to come. Even if they don't do any new material. I don't care if Ed doesn't sound like he did vocally on SS. I'm elated.

[mfitz804]

I was once in a band with a singer who only wanted to sing the songs he wrote, despite the fact that some of our other band members wrote as well. His reasoning was exactly that, his performance was better on his own songs because they were personal to him.

[World Dreamer]

I was once in a band with a singer who only wanted to sing the songs he wrote, despite the fact that some of our other band members wrote as well. His reasoning was exactly that, his performance was better on his own songs because they were personal to him.

This is a very interesting statement and is what I base my defense of Shinn messing up lyrics on.

First, yes he needed to eventually get the lyrics down. I get that. But he never lived those songs.

I'd also like to know how much they rehearsed. How often did they go through those songs? Between families, living across the country from each other, and business ventures do you think they were in the studio rehearsing? I would guess not or at least not nearly enough.

Yes, Shinn could have put Throwing Copper on his iPhone and probably should have. But if Shinn forgetting lyrics is a main reason for Live dropping him then I would suggest CCP look in the mirror. I saw more tweets about racecars than I did music.

Shinn never messed up songs off The Turn though. Ed messed up Live songs all the time.

[vivapokey]

I also think Chris intentionally changed some lyrics in some songs, possibly to make them more "his". Which is fair enough, if your role is to sing songs that weren't yours then why not try put your own spin on them. For example, I'm almost certain in TDC its him changing "she will lead us" to "sheep will lead us". But really, I can't imagine going to a gig and being like "hmm that word wasn't the same word that I am used to hearing in this part of the song, get the manager I want to complain!" It was really only as big a deal as you made of it. Even Ed messing up his own lyrics, who cares.
I mean, lack of professionalism? Eh, maybe, probably. But then again, there wasn't a whole lot of that in spades all round. I mean how much did the entire band butcher the handling of The Turn and its promotion. That is a much bigger deal than some missed words. Total scapegoating when you hear people blaming lack of success on Shinn messing some words up.

This post has been edited by vivapokey: Nov 18 2016, 11:58 am

[Tips]

Chris Shinn was a great singer and I love most of The Turn. But to be honest, the original lineup is always more special. I'm really happy that Ed's back and I do hope he doesn't act like he did after TDTH. To me though, Ed's on "probation". If he's the same Ed we've seen in the 2000's and the next Live album sounds like what Ed's done since 2001 (BOP, SFBM and his solo records), which I really don't like, then The Turn will be the last Live record I ever buy.

But if it was just a need for Ed to do things by himself, then I'm glad he did and that we had the chance to get a good Live record with a good singer and good songs in the meantime. Chris will be missed and I will be interested in what he'll do now.

But Live's back together

[Merica]

I saw more tweets about racecars than I did music.

I mean come on, lads, there's nowt special about a motor with a Live sticker on it. My Ma's had a Secret Samadhi decal on her car window for ten fucking years. JUST GIVE US THE TUUUUUNES.

[mfitz804]

I also think Chris intentionally changed some lyrics in some songs, possibly to make them more "his". Which is fair enough, if your role is to sing songs that weren't yours then why not try put your own spin on them. For example, I'm almost certain in TDC its him changing "she will lead us" to "sheep will lead us". But really, I can't imagine going to a gig and being like "hmm that word wasn't the same word that I am used to hearing in this part of the song, get the manager I want to complain!" It was really only as big a deal as you made of it. Even Ed messing up his own lyrics, who cares.
I mean, lack of professionalism? Eh, maybe, probably. But then again, there wasn't a whole lot of that in spades all round. I mean how much did the entire band butcher the handling of The Turn and its promotion. That is a much bigger deal than some missed words. Total scapegoating when you hear people blaming lack of success on Shinn messing some words up.

If that made it more personal for him, he's got some 'splaining to do!!

[mfitz804]

Double post.

This post has been edited by mfitz804: Nov 18 2016, 1:21 pm

[vivapokey]

If that made it more personal for him, he's got some 'splaining to do!!

Thats the thing about 'personal', he doesn't have to

[Bremang]

Ed messed up Live songs all the time.

nope - not debatable. it is fact

[vivapokey]

Yes, Shinn could have put Throwing Copper on his iPhone and probably should have. But if Shinn forgetting lyrics is a main reason for Live dropping him then I would suggest CCP look in the mirror. I saw more tweets about racecars than I did music.

Yeah this is more along the lines of things. It was just ... such a weird strategy. Like "hey if we put our branding on a car, and then promote the car, then we get money now?" Maybe try promoting the actual band rather than the car with a band sticker on it. They handled The Turn so poorly.