Who is your preferred singer for +Live+? Options

[vivapokey]

What is certain is that the way Chris performed Iris does not even come close to either current Ed or 1990s Ed. I am using Iris as an example because, to me, it is Live’s gold standard.

So, so, so far from certain. Ed performs Irish like a pop-rock song. That's about the worst example you could think of. One of Live's more raw, unrelenting songs and Ed smooths the vocals out to put such a shine on it that it barely resembles the original.

And that in itself is what people are saying. Ed in 1995 and Ed in 2016 perform that song so differently and Ed has been singing it closer to the way he does now for a long time. I'd be astounded if he could go back to the way he used to.

[Costakoui]

So, so, so far from certain. Ed performs Irish like a pop-rock song. That's about the worst example you could think of. One of Live's more raw, unrelenting songs and Ed smooths the vocals out to put such a shine on it that it barely resembles the original.

And that in itself is what people are saying. Ed in 1995 and Ed in 2016 perform that song so differently and Ed has been singing it closer to the way he does now for a long time. I'd be astounded if he could go back to the way he used to.

If you think that Ed's performance of Iris is pop then the definition of pop has possibly changed. If you want to compare current Ed with current Chris compare how they perform Live songs from the 90s. The only song that Chris performed in way that could compete with Ed's is The Beauty of Gray.

[Costakoui]

Your argument makes no sense. Do you not realize that half of the band's output WITH Ed Kowalczyk came in the 00s, NOT the 90s?

I think it is completely unrealistic to think that Ed will sound like or write anything similar to music he wrote 20 years ago.

If you want to modify the poll to include the following choices:

Ed 90s
Actual Ed
Chris

Then of course I would vote for Ed 90s. But there is a next to zero chance of that happening.

His voice changed but i think he can write songs like the ones he did in the 1990s. If you are right then why are still here supporting CCP and Chris? If Ed cannot write like the 1990s then why CCP can? I think you are confusing Ed-solo with Live. Live as a band, not Ed leading the band, can write heavy/ raw rock songs like Siren's Call and Don't Run to Wait. These songs are reminiscent of early Live.

[ThrowgnCpr]

His voice changed but i think he can write songs like the ones he did in the 1990s. If you are right then why are still here supporting CCP and Chris? If Ed cannot write like the 1990s then why CCP can? I think you are confusing Ed-solo with Live. Live as a band, not Ed leading the band, can write heavy/ raw rock songs like Siren's Call and Don't Run to Wait. These songs are reminiscent of early Live.

Ed definitely does not write songs like he did on Mental Jewelry, Throwing Copper or Secret Samadhi. The lyrical content on those was usually abstract and covered a lot of socio-political topics. Ed's writing style has been very much on the nose with recent material, and you can tell that there is a lot less conflict in his life. Comfort makes for boring art.

CCP never really contributed to the lyric content, but when they collaborated with Chris, they were allowed to explore what they wanted in a way that early-Live operated. From TDTH on, it was pretty clear that Ed was driving the creative direction. And it was a path that I had little interest in.

I do not believe that with Ed back in the mix they would be able to capture that same collaborative effort that they enjoyed during the mid-1990s. And even if they could, I don't think that Ed could contribute lyrical or vocal content in a way that I would enjoy.

I could care less if Ed can pull of a performance of Iris that is similar to the way he sang it 20 years ago (he can't...). I care about what new music would sound like with him back.

[+Ed+]

Y'all know what. I am spinning s recording right now. The gig from 2001. Grunspan. Let me tell you that to me personally if the baldy ever gets at least close to what he did with his pipes back then, I would be mostly happy.

Just for the record. Tdth is still my fave album ever created. Hated Ed's solo. Liked Turn. Loved TGF.

If the guys are really back together, which is still uncertain, I bet they will put out the long forgotten demos from V either rerecorded or remixed or somehow upgraded to sound more modern and radio friendly.

To be honest I could not care less if Ed is back. But if they are happy with things settled, good for them.

To me, you can never forget a true betrayal. Rest is up to them.

[Voodoo Lady]

And now we are back to the same old Ed doesn't sound the same argument...

No, Ed will not ever sound the same as 1997... and who EFFING CARES?!

I'll use The Cult as a comparison. Ian Astbury doesn't sound the same as he did in the eighties, but if you saw them out on the road with GnR this year, or were lucky enough to catch them by themselves, as I was, Ian still rocks. Their latest album is not the same as theirs were in the past. I don't care. They still are amazing & the latest album is a good, solid one.

My point is, stop over analyzing and be thankful that Live 1.0 is returning to us. If they put out a rockin' album, shut up and have fun and relive your younger years. We are LUCKY that we have all 4 original members!! We should be so thankful for that. Do y'all not realize how rare it is to have a 30 year old band with all original members!? The Cult sure doesn't.

Yes, I know all the Chris lovers are going to argue back, but Chris sounds better, blah, blah, blah. IMO, Ed on his worst day was better. You can feel any way you like, but you have to admit, that if you truly love your band, you will appreciate that all four are back together, instead of whining.

[ThrowgnCpr]

And now we are back to the same old Ed doesn't sound the same argument...

No, Ed will not ever sound the same as 1997... and who EFFING CARES?!

I'll use The Cult as a comparison. Ian Astbury doesn't sound the same as he did in the eighties, but if you saw them out on the road with GnR this year, or were lucky enough to catch them by themselves, as I was, Ian still rocks. Their latest album is not the same as theirs were in the past. I don't care. They still are amazing & the latest album is a good, solid one.

My point is, stop over analyzing and be thankful that Live 1.0 is returning to us. If they put out a rockin' album, shut up and have fun and relive your younger years. We are LUCKY that we have all 4 original members!! We should be so thankful for that. Do y'all not realize how rare it is to have a 30 year old band with all original members!? The Cult sure doesn't.

Yes, I know all the Chris lovers are going to argue back, but Chris sounds better, blah, blah, blah. IMO, Ed on his worst day was better. You can feel any way you like, but you have to admit, that if you truly love your band, you will appreciate that all four are back together, instead of whining.

I'm not a Chris lover, and I'm done making my point. Ed's voice wasn't my main issue. It's the type of music he creates now. There is no denying the drastic change in lyrical content/style starting in the 2000s. Him sounding different is as much, if not more, the result of his stylistic choices, not physical limitations.

I've said it before, I have no interest in nostalgia acts, only the creation of new music. For the most part, I enjoyed The Turn. I cannot say the same of V, BOP or SFBM.

You're obviously into the nostalgia acts, so clearly you'd be happy to see Ed back in the mix. I've no problem with that. I saw Live a few times after they released V, and I really didn't enjoy the show. So for me, there is no allure to Ed coming back to Live.

This post has been edited by ThrowgnCpr: Nov 2 2016, 2:40 pm

[FishOutaWater]

My preferred singer is Ed.

I loved The Gracious Few. I loved seeing Chris Shinn in concert with CCP, but I wasn't really a huge fan of The Turn. There was just something missing for me and I haven't really listened to it since it first came out. I am not a fan of Ed's solo work and I'm not a fan of Chris Shinn's solo work. But there is just something about the unique tone in Ed's voice that is so special, and I have always been a sucker for Ed's voice. And I don't think that he has gone downhill. I hate when he tries to change the songs and do vocal runs like a reality show contestant, but when he sticks to the plan and sings with passion, I am a fan.

As my first post here in many years, I would like to pick up where I left off, by saying that what I personally think made Live great was the collaboration of all four members of Live. Even accepting that Ed wrote the lyrics and the main framework of the music and brought them to the studio, Live would not have been Live without Gracey's distinctive and identifiable drums and the great contribution of Patrick's bass and Chad's perfectly-crafted and skillfully-placed guitar riffs and accents. The creative contributions of all 4 band members to what made Live great were interdependent with each other. When I listen to demos and the Churchbox sessions I can hear how the songs evolved and developed into a final piece that really moves you. And I believe that the evolution of those songs from Ed's singer songwriter framework to the studio recordings on the albums and amazing stage performances for two decades came from a creative process and contribution of all 4 members of the band. I don't think that Ed guided the hands of Chad, Chad and Patrick with each drum beat and pick of the guitar, and withoutALL of that, none of them would have been as successful as they were and none of us would probably be here talking about them.

It seems clear to me that after Ed took over creative control from beginning to end, Live produced a different product. Most people like the later catalog less than the first four albums and the decline of success is a quantitative measure of that. At the end, I was highly critical of Ed's lyrics and song writing when he became less metaphorical and poetic, and started relying more on explicit similes, more overtly Christian lyrics, more dependent on water symbolism and less philosophical. I longed for his writing to return to the genius of Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper.

I am very optimistic that Ed, Chad, Chad and Patrick can work together the way they used to and crank up those creative juices again to create some new music that sounds better than anything they've produced together, individually or with others since 1999. There are plenty of examples out there right now of seasoned rockers still bringing it with great new music and I have no reason to believe that Live can't do that too. I believe (without knowing any facts) that we will hear new music and see some shows in the next 12 to 18 months, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we can hear some new Live music that pleases everyone, no matter if you are an Ed solo fan, a TGF fan, a Chris Shinn fan or whatever.

As for whether this is a money grab? I don't think so. These guys are artists. You can see that in all of their activities over the years. Chas Taylor and Ed have been the most visible, and you can see that they care about the music and they want to create and perform. And they are lifelong friends who have struggled together, risen to the peak of fame, and experienced a ride together that few can even imagine. They have a bond of friendship and shared experience. I don't find it hard to believe that they could have found common ground, forgiveness and reconciliation. Particularly when, if any of us have been listening to their music, transcending differences and finding peace has been what Live is all about.

I know I might get criticized for making a long post, but I want to say one last thing. Whether you like Chris Shinn in Live or not, I think Chris deserves some serious appreciation for handling himself with class, dignity and respect for Live. I am not aware of him ever saying anything that disrespected Ed or Live's past. he could have said and one a lot of things that fanned the flames of Ed verses no-Ed, and that was a difficult path to walk and those were huge shoes to fill. He performed the songs from the early catalog with reverence and passion. He was humble, energetic, and he himself seemed like a fan. I met him on many occasions and there could be a more gracious guy. If Live moves on with Ed, Chris was a spark that kept the Live flame alive. I don't think that anyone could have done it better.

[Voodoo Lady]

I am very optimistic that Ed, Chad, Chad and Patrick can work together the way they used to and crank up those creative juices again to create some new music that sounds better than anything they've produced together, individually or with others since 1999. There are plenty of examples out there right now of seasoned rockers still bringing it with great new music and I have no reason to believe that Live can't do that too. I believe (without knowing any facts) that we will hear new music and see some shows in the next 12 to 18 months, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we can hear some new Live music that pleases everyone, no matter if you are an Ed solo fan, a TGF fan, a Chris Shinn fan or whatever.

Agree. Artists are definitely able to perform other genres and styles of music and return to their "bread and butter." Ed, collaborating with CCP, will be able to do the same. It will not be a TC or SS quality of album, because all artists have a peak creativity (we are human!), but Live can create relevant, quality music again. Everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure Ed realizes his with the latter albums. Otherwise, as many have said, CCP wouldn't have let him in their inner circle again.

I'd also like the way you commended Chris for being humble and never saying any negatives about Ed or Live. So true, as I never noticed anything either. That does take a humble person. I will hand it to Shinn for that.

[mfan0410]

My preferred singer is Ed.

I loved The Gracious Few. I loved seeing Chris Shinn in concert with CCP, but I wasn't really a huge fan of The Turn. There was just something missing for me and I haven't really listened to it since it first came out. I am not a fan of Ed's solo work and I'm not a fan of Chris Shinn's solo work. But there is just something about the unique tone in Ed's voice that is so special, and I have always been a sucker for Ed's voice. And I don't think that he has gone downhill. I hate when he tries to change the songs and do vocal runs like a reality show contestant, but when he sticks to the plan and sings with passion, I am a fan.

As my first post here in many years, I would like to pick up where I left off, by saying that what I personally think made Live great was the collaboration of all four members of Live. Even accepting that Ed wrote the lyrics and the main framework of the music and brought them to the studio, Live would not have been Live without Gracey's distinctive and identifiable drums and the great contribution of Patrick's bass and Chad's perfectly-crafted and skillfully-placed guitar riffs and accents. The creative contributions of all 4 band members to what made Live great were interdependent with each other. When I listen to demos and the Churchbox sessions I can hear how the songs evolved and developed into a final piece that really moves you. And I believe that the evolution of those songs from Ed's singer songwriter framework to the studio recordings on the albums and amazing stage performances for two decades came from a creative process and contribution of all 4 members of the band. I don't think that Ed guided the hands of Chad, Chad and Patrick with each drum beat and pick of the guitar, and withoutALL of that, none of them would have been as successful as they were and none of us would probably be here talking about them.

It seems clear to me that after Ed took over creative control from beginning to end, Live produced a different product. Most people like the later catalog less than the first four albums and the decline of success is a quantitative measure of that. At the end, I was highly critical of Ed's lyrics and song writing when he became less metaphorical and poetic, and started relying more on explicit similes, more overtly Christian lyrics, more dependent on water symbolism and less philosophical. I longed for his writing to return to the genius of Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper.

I am very optimistic that Ed, Chad, Chad and Patrick can work together the way they used to and crank up those creative juices again to create some new music that sounds better than anything they've produced together, individually or with others since 1999. There are plenty of examples out there right now of seasoned rockers still bringing it with great new music and I have no reason to believe that Live can't do that too. I believe (without knowing any facts) that we will hear new music and see some shows in the next 12 to 18 months, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we can hear some new Live music that pleases everyone, no matter if you are an Ed solo fan, a TGF fan, a Chris Shinn fan or whatever.

As for whether this is a money grab? I don't think so. These guys are artists. You can see that in all of their activities over the years. Chas Taylor and Ed have been the most visible, and you can see that they care about the music and they want to create and perform. And they are lifelong friends who have struggled together, risen to the peak of fame, and experienced a ride together that few can even imagine. They have a bond of friendship and shared experience. I don't find it hard to believe that they could have found common ground, forgiveness and reconciliation. Particularly when, if any of us have been listening to their music, transcending differences and finding peace has been what Live is all about.

I know I might get criticized for making a long post, but I want to say one last thing. Whether you like Chris Shinn in Live or not, I think Chris deserves some serious appreciation for handling himself with class, dignity and respect for Live. I am not aware of him ever saying anything that disrespected Ed or Live's past. he could have said and one a lot of things that fanned the flames of Ed verses no-Ed, and that was a difficult path to walk and those were huge shoes to fill. He performed the songs from the early catalog with reverence and passion. He was humble, energetic, and he himself seemed like a fan. I met him on many occasions and there could be a more gracious guy. If Live moves on with Ed, Chris was a spark that kept the Live flame alive. I don't think that anyone could have done it better.

Very thoughtful post! I find it interesting sharing various fan perspectives and how each person takes the music and experience differently and personally.

I agree with a lot of this. My personal choice is Ed, for various reasons. Chris seems like a nice guy and clearly brought some new energy/etc. to Live 2.0, but I just personally love the original band. As a long time fan who's never seen LIVE in concert (just YouTube ) only Ed solo) I am hopeful for the guys to come together and collaborate in the true spirit of what LIVE is/was about in the first place.....with the original four.

I agree that I don't think their reconciliation is based on money--to me, it's extremely dis-respectful to imply that. If they make music again--it's for a lot of reasons I'm sure! These guys have a long history and bond that we will never know and is between them ultimately.

As a fan, I don't expect things to sound/look like exactly 1997 again, etc like some have been saying, (that's unrealistic) however I DO believe like others have said that they can get together and make some great music again--and deliver a musical experience fans can appreciate. I may not just love everything that they/Ed have put out, but I'm still a fan, and am hopeful.

Time will tell...l'm just happy to see, for their sake, a personal reconciliation between brothers, as they have referred to each other before.

Let's see what happens!

[ThrowgnCpr]

Commendable post FishOutaWater. I don't feel the same about every point, but I totally respect your opinion there.

All four original members have said some stupid stuff over the years, but no doubt Chris' time spent with the band was done with a lot of grace and respect. I do hope that whatever happens with all these guys in the future, that they can get along and respect the creative influence they all had in the machine that is +Live+

[Unsheathed]

I'm not concerned with the quality of Eds voice at all. His voice is literally representative of the distance to here; it should, in no way, sounds like the 90s. I hope he embraces the uniqueness of his life and uses it well.

I am much more concerned about his willingness to allow artistic freedom amongst his colleagues.

[Shared Belief]

My preferred singer is Ed.

I loved The Gracious Few. I loved seeing Chris Shinn in concert with CCP, but I wasn't really a huge fan of The Turn. There was just something missing for me and I haven't really listened to it since it first came out. I am not a fan of Ed's solo work and I'm not a fan of Chris Shinn's solo work. But there is just something about the unique tone in Ed's voice that is so special, and I have always been a sucker for Ed's voice. And I don't think that he has gone downhill. I hate when he tries to change the songs and do vocal runs like a reality show contestant, but when he sticks to the plan and sings with passion, I am a fan.

As my first post here in many years, I would like to pick up where I left off, by saying that what I personally think made Live great was the collaboration of all four members of Live. Even accepting that Ed wrote the lyrics and the main framework of the music and brought them to the studio, Live would not have been Live without Gracey's distinctive and identifiable drums and the great contribution of Patrick's bass and Chad's perfectly-crafted and skillfully-placed guitar riffs and accents. The creative contributions of all 4 band members to what made Live great were interdependent with each other. When I listen to demos and the Churchbox sessions I can hear how the songs evolved and developed into a final piece that really moves you. And I believe that the evolution of those songs from Ed's singer songwriter framework to the studio recordings on the albums and amazing stage performances for two decades came from a creative process and contribution of all 4 members of the band. I don't think that Ed guided the hands of Chad, Chad and Patrick with each drum beat and pick of the guitar, and withoutALL of that, none of them would have been as successful as they were and none of us would probably be here talking about them.

It seems clear to me that after Ed took over creative control from beginning to end, Live produced a different product. Most people like the later catalog less than the first four albums and the decline of success is a quantitative measure of that. At the end, I was highly critical of Ed's lyrics and song writing when he became less metaphorical and poetic, and started relying more on explicit similes, more overtly Christian lyrics, more dependent on water symbolism and less philosophical. I longed for his writing to return to the genius of Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper.

I am very optimistic that Ed, Chad, Chad and Patrick can work together the way they used to and crank up those creative juices again to create some new music that sounds better than anything they've produced together, individually or with others since 1999. There are plenty of examples out there right now of seasoned rockers still bringing it with great new music and I have no reason to believe that Live can't do that too. I believe (without knowing any facts) that we will hear new music and see some shows in the next 12 to 18 months, and I remain cautiously optimistic that we can hear some new Live music that pleases everyone, no matter if you are an Ed solo fan, a TGF fan, a Chris Shinn fan or whatever.

As for whether this is a money grab? I don't think so. These guys are artists. You can see that in all of their activities over the years. Chas Taylor and Ed have been the most visible, and you can see that they care about the music and they want to create and perform. And they are lifelong friends who have struggled together, risen to the peak of fame, and experienced a ride together that few can even imagine. They have a bond of friendship and shared experience. I don't find it hard to believe that they could have found common ground, forgiveness and reconciliation. Particularly when, if any of us have been listening to their music, transcending differences and finding peace has been what Live is all about.

I know I might get criticized for making a long post, but I want to say one last thing. Whether you like Chris Shinn in Live or not, I think Chris deserves some serious appreciation for handling himself with class, dignity and respect for Live. I am not aware of him ever saying anything that disrespected Ed or Live's past. he could have said and one a lot of things that fanned the flames of Ed verses no-Ed, and that was a difficult path to walk and those were huge shoes to fill. He performed the songs from the early catalog with reverence and passion. He was humble, energetic, and he himself seemed like a fan. I met him on many occasions and there could be a more gracious guy. If Live moves on with Ed, Chris was a spark that kept the Live flame alive. I don't think that anyone could have done it better.

careful fow, some ppl dont like long posts around here

[mfitz804]

Was just watching this video of Shinn singing The Dolphin's Cry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvn1tJUbepI

Compare and contrast with Ed doing it 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJM4FR-DTIk

All I can say is, Shinn was definitely wearing a better shirt.

[Voodoo Lady]

I've watched the comparison videos twice. Chris is off key and his eyes are closed for most of the song. You need to open your eyes when you sing. (That's something you should only have to tell a beginner, as it shows the crowd you are passionate about what you are singing).

Although Ed made a few awkward faces, his eyes were open and he sounds like the record.

Both shirts are bad.

Why did Live 2.0 wear the same stage clothes for two years?