Who is your preferred singer for +Live+? Options

[throwing_cheetahs]

And then where do you draw the line on "fans". Are people who only know the songs on Awake fans, or do you count casual fans who likely weren't even aware Chris wasn't the original guy (as some people at the show I went to were shocked to find out).

There is no set criteria to being a fan. A fan doesn't have to go to shows, buy merch, cd's, post on a forum or own every album. I am a fan of Smashing Pumpkins, but i don't own all of their albums, nor have ever seen them in concert, but i'm still a fan. So i don't care if someone has been a fan since Awake, BOP, TC, MJ, Public Affection or since they saw them perform at that talent show in the 80's covering R.E.M., hell i don't care if they just started to like them yesterday. You don't have to know the life story of the band to be a fan, i hate when people are like - your not a real fan because you don't know about (fill in the blank). There are different levels of fandom as i know, but when it comes down to it, you don't have to be a superfan to be a fan! I'm sure +Live+ would feel the same way. FACTS!

*sorry about the almost Pokey-Sized post y'all

This post has been edited by throwing_cheetahs: Oct 31 2016, 12:35 am

[vivapokey]

*sorry about the almost Pokey-Sized post y'all

Soon you'll learn there is substance in words as opposed to writing post-card sized posts. I propose from now on we just do away with words all together and communicate only in symbols and smilies.

Actually, it goes to show how pedestrian everything has become when the shock of a few paragraphs blows people's mind. Shock horror, actually things to discuss!


But, I never said there was any set criteria for being a fan. What I was inferring is that perhaps some fans' opinions should be taken with more weight than others. Its like voters. Should someone who has paid zero attention to an election, all they've seen is a couple of 3 word slogans and done no research themselves have the same weighted voted as someone who has invested heavily and really considered who to vote for and why? Same thing here, if pure numbers is all you go by you're going to capture a whole bunch of people who really don't have that much of a vested interest.
Of course, that is the way it is with these things, but its also a caution in how you interpret things.

Lord almighty people, you guys need a real shake up around here!

[Hoodstock]

Are people who only know the songs on Awake fans, or do you count casual fans who likely weren't even aware Chris wasn't the original guy (as some people at the show I went to were shocked to find out).

True fans know Awake is a "greatest hits" album with a poorly chosen track list.

[odoyle]

There is no set criteria to being a fan. A fan doesn't have to go to shows, buy merch, cd's, post on a forum or own every album. I am a fan of Smashing Pumpkins, but i don't own all of their albums, nor have ever seen them in concert, but i'm still a fan. So i don't care if someone has been a fan since Awake, BOP, TC, MJ, Public Affection or since they saw them perform at that talent show in the 80's covering R.E.M., hell i don't care if they just started to like them yesterday. You don't have to know the life story of the band to be a fan, i hate when people are like - your not a real fan because you don't know about (fill in the blank). There are different levels of fandom as i know, but when it comes down to it, you don't have to be a superfan to be a fan! I'm sure +Live+ would feel the same way. FACTS!

*sorry about the almost Pokey-Sized post y'all

Fans do come in all types and they all can be considered fans of a band and their music for a myriad of reasons.

But I take issue with your analysis (and see pokey's point of view) that Live does place a little more weight on the long timers over the new fringe fans. Why are you coming down on this pokey poster because he can articulate much with a lot of sentences? You seem to want to big time some posters here a bit. He does make a point on several avenues. I see his comparison with another fan here wanting Live reunion for money reasons over the music and artistic value. I guess you can debate that all over the place but I think it can be stated for a fact, you love Live for the music. If it's about money or who's a more important member, charts, it's all noise which should be discounted in discussions about the band. It's peripheral noise.

[mfitz804]

True fans know Awake is a "greatest hits" album with a poorly chosen track list.

I don't know, it has the "hits", I think. There are better songs that weren't on there that you have to be a bit more of a fan to know, but that's kind of what a Greatest Hits disc is. It's the more well known songs.

I countered this by making my own "Awake II" disc and putting it in the case with the original. I don't remember my track list at this point, but it's basically 1-3 songs from each album that I like that weren't included.

[Wambangalang]

There is no set criteria to being a fan. A fan doesn't have to go to shows, buy merch, cd's, post on a forum or own every album.

A fan, or fanatic, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person who is enthusiastically devoted to something or somebody, such as a band, a sports team, a genre, a book, a movie or an entertainer. Collectively, the fans of a particular object or person constitute its fanbase or fandom. They may show their enthusiasm in a variety of ways, such as by promoting the object of their interest, being members of a fan club, holding or participating in fan conventions, or writing fan mail. They may also engage in creative activities ("fan labor") such as creating fanzines, writing fan fiction, making memes or drawing fan art.

I dunno, I think I fall somewhere in between your definition of a fan and the actual definition of a fan. I've been to 3 Live shows and a couple of Ed shows. Had an opportunity to meet Ed but always declined coz I don't really want to meet the guy (same goes for the rest of the band), I like their music but don't want to have a normal conversation or ask stupid fan questions. Don't blow money on merch. Don't love everything they do. But I can say this is the only band message board I post on (and that's been very infrequent in the last couple of years). I did buy 3 copies of the turn though and shared them to friends so I guess that's a bit fanatic of me...

Alive? Seriously? Lol

[Shared Belief]

But no really this is why there is always going to be some unrest in the fan base. If people legit prefer the sound of Alive, somehow, over The Turn and others are vice versa it's clear we are never all quite going to get what we want.

i think the unrest is also due to the long standing argument of "live is 4 guys" or "ed is live".

as mentioned elsewhere lot sof ppl hated ccp after the split. natural they like anything ed related over ccp related so alive over the turn.

sometimes ppl pick sides over the music

This post has been edited by Shared Belief: Oct 31 2016, 9:49 am

[vivapokey]

i think the unrest is also due to the long standing argument of "live is 4 guys" or "ed is live".

as mentioned elsewhere lot sof ppl hated ccp after the split. natural they like anything ed related over ccp related so alive over the turn.

sometimes ppl pick sides over the music

That's true. You had people who had zero problems with CCP before the split (as opposed to lots of people having problems with Ed before the split) and then suddenly they were all over CCP. The infamous "no noticable drop offs" comment when comparing Ed's band to CCP for example. A lot of people really can only see Live skin deep, that is, Ed = Live. Which even back in the 90s I would never subscribe to. It makes it hard to take a lot of those people's comments seriously now with any weight when you know they have almost zero appreciation for anything unrelated to Ed. They can say now all they like that they do, but there were years of posting otherwise.

[Shared Belief]

side note - i agree shinn should have gotten better with the old live lyrics but id like to point out i dont think i ever saw him mess up the turn lyrics (maybe he did idk) but i think it is muych different when you wrote/lived the lyrics you are singing

6310 a great example of that. what a song

i will say tho when i saw shinn he did a smashing version of freaks.

id rank sirens call a top 5 live song as well.

but yeah, even if shinn put out 3 albums with live thye would still sing many old live songs so he needed to get those lyrics right. was acceptable early but not towards the end

his passion never in question tho at least not from what i saw.

[vivapokey]

side note - i agree shinn should have gotten better with the old live lyrics but id like to point out i dont think i ever saw him mess up the turn lyrics (maybe he did idk) but i think it is muych different when you wrote/lived the lyrics you are singing

6310 a great example of that. what a song

i will say tho when i saw shinn he did a smashing version of freaks.

id rank sirens call a top 5 live song as well.

but yeah, even if shinn put out 3 albums with live thye would still sing many old live songs so he needed to get those lyrics right. was acceptable early but not towards the end

his passion never in question tho at least not from what i saw.

His version of POD as I've mentioned before, is the best I have ever heard that song. Perfect. I also think there are times when he changed the lyrics on purpose (which of course we know Ed has done too). Not all the time, he definitely messed up some. But other times I am sure it was on purpose. Possibly to make the songs more "his"? Which I can't blame him for wanting to put a personal spin on it to give it more personal meaning, even if it is in the tiniest way. For example, in the Dolphin's Cry ... most versions I've heard he changes "she will lead us" to "sheep will lead us". Just subtle changes.

Other times he messed up, but eh, I really don't care. I've seen Ed on stage with song books for his own songs (latest example being MEIAVC from that 2007 youtube recording just posted here). But point is, the lyric mess ups just simply didn't bother me like it does others. Maybe its because a number of my favourite artists constantly change up the words to songs and ad-lib and don't sing parts etc.. and I've always sort of liked that to make each performance a little unique in its own way - whether its intended or not.

As for his own songs .. I think the fact that Chris was willing to commit such a personal story of himself such as the subject of 6310 to Live and not use it for his own solo work was telling of how much he did give of himself to the band. It was obviously a major, major event in his life and has had a profound effect on him and you'd not begrudge him at all for keeping the content of the song for himself or indeed, not singing about it at all. But he gave it to Live and I thought that in itself was pretty powerful. Chris isn't about huge gestures and spotlight stealing and putting on a stage show. He's much more subtle. Even when singing 6310, a couple of times I've seen it just little things... such as the line "the master tapes of songs you'll never hear", and then afterwards he would occasionally pause as if lost in thought for just a brief moment. It almost gave that feeling of in amongst all these things, human lives at stake etc... pausing to momentarily reflect on maybe what a silly thing to come to mind something like losing songs is.

In the end, I think its a shame more people couldn't appreciate him or recognise the qualities he brought. It would be a crying shame if he becomes the scapegoat in all this and forgotten. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't malicious or bad of character like you could argue others are. I think in all he got a bum deal. But, at the same time, he was given a chance to do something he otherwise wouldn't have and it gave us a great album, and me an unforgettable show. To me, Ed has huge shoes to fill now.

[alexou]

His version of POD as I've mentioned before, is the best I have ever heard that song. Perfect. I also think there are times when he changed the lyrics on purpose (which of course we know Ed has done too). Not all the time, he definitely messed up some. But other times I am sure it was on purpose. Possibly to make the songs more "his"? Which I can't blame him for wanting to put a personal spin on it to give it more personal meaning, even if it is in the tiniest way. For example, in the Dolphin's Cry ... most versions I've heard he changes "she will lead us" to "sheep will lead us". Just subtle changes.

Other times he messed up, but eh, I really don't care. I've seen Ed on stage with song books for his own songs (latest example being MEIAVC from that 2007 youtube recording just posted here). But point is, the lyric mess ups just simply didn't bother me like it does others. Maybe its because a number of my favourite artists constantly change up the words to songs and ad-lib and don't sing parts etc.. and I've always sort of liked that to make each performance a little unique in its own way - whether its intended or not.

As for his own songs .. I think the fact that Chris was willing to commit such a personal story of himself such as the subject of 6310 to Live and not use it for his own solo work was telling of how much he did give of himself to the band. It was obviously a major, major event in his life and has had a profound effect on him and you'd not begrudge him at all for keeping the content of the song for himself or indeed, not singing about it at all. But he gave it to Live and I thought that in itself was pretty powerful. Chris isn't about huge gestures and spotlight stealing and putting on a stage show. He's much more subtle. Even when singing 6310, a couple of times I've seen it just little things... such as the line "the master tapes of songs you'll never hear", and then afterwards he would occasionally pause as if lost in thought for just a brief moment. It almost gave that feeling of in amongst all these things, human lives at stake etc... pausing to momentarily reflect on maybe what a silly thing to come to mind something like losing songs is.

In the end, I think its a shame more people couldn't appreciate him or recognise the qualities he brought. It would be a crying shame if he becomes the scapegoat in all this and forgotten. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't malicious or bad of character like you could argue others are. I think in all he got a bum deal. But, at the same time, he was given a chance to do something he otherwise wouldn't have and it gave us a great album, and me an unforgettable show. To me, Ed has huge shoes to fill now.

This. I have more problems with you for the lyrics, but for everything else, exactly what I think. The time Shinn was commited the most to the band was in the studio I guess, but again 2 of the 3 shows I've been too his forces were way stronger than his weaknesses. Humble and not trying to pretend he is anyone else. The 3rd show was the AC show, but even there the Pillar of Davidson version you refer to was stellar.

I know all the music tastes can't really be discussed, but Alive can't be ranked above The turn in terms of creativity and all. Can't figure this one.

[Voodoo Lady]

VivaPokey--When and where was the show you speak of? I'd like to see the perfect version of P.O.D. Does video exist?

[vivapokey]

VivaPokey--When and where was the show you speak of? I'd like to see the perfect version of P.O.D. Does video exist?

It was the Atlantic City TC anniversary show. There's a couple of youtube clips but they're horrendous quality. There's an audio recording which is better, but still not great. But you're not going to like it, so why bother?

[Shared Belief]

the first 4 songs on the turn are a a very strong start. the other songs are good but i really like the first 4

maybe TC and SS had a better first 4 although century kinda weak, they better albums overall probably.

for me tdth slightly behind the turn. i know they are diff styles but if you took out the 5 worst on the turn and replaced with 5 best off tdth, or vice versa, it would be a sick album

but tc and ss great allt he way through.

we leave out mj but it is great as well. mirror song one of my favorites. ed doing mirror song acoustic is good even now and was great back in the day

This post has been edited by Shared Belief: Oct 31 2016, 1:17 pm

[Voodoo Lady]

It was the Atlantic City TC anniversary show. There's a couple of youtube clips but they're horrendous quality. There's an audio recording which is better, but still not great. But you're not going to like it, so why bother?

There you go being defensive and arguing again. I told you I wasn't arguing any more with you about it. I simply asked you where I could see it. Who are you to decide for me what I will or will not like?

Thank you. I will look it up. I'm smart enough to understand the quality of a video versus the quality of performance. Thanks again.