Who is your preferred singer for +Live+? Options

[Bremang]

On the other hand, he was far better than Ed has been since 1998

Very few would put the turn over tdth

[vivapokey]

No, no he wasn't.

I'm sure I could go in the studio and sing for LIVE's next album and they could clean my vocals up to sound really good on the finished product. But that isn't going to help how I sound on stage, my stage presence, or how often I remember lyrics. Hey, just like Chris.

Now Ed's goofy music videos; well, that's a different case...

No you couldn't, and yes he was

Yeah he would forget some lyrics, but, I didn't care. It was raw, real, not a produced stage show like Ed got to being. He had raw power that Ed has long forgotten. Chris was not as a "pretty" singer as Ed became. Ed tried to make TC era songs sound like they were Taylor Swift songs with the way he would approach them. Chris was more inventive even with just a mic in hand - he played with space and used his distance from the mic to actually sound interesting. And any singer where I can go "man that was Jeff Buckleyesque" at times is not a bad singer. You might not personally like his voice because it's not what you were used to but to completely discredit him as a singer is showing insane bias. Even before Ed became jealous of him he praised him as a singer when he had no conflict of interest. Was he perfect? No, who is? But he was damn good and brought energy and a tone to the role that had been vacant for a long time. Seeing him live when I did he didn't put a foot wrong and it was easily the best I have heard the band since the 1997 tour. He didn't have as much "character" in his voice as Ed does. Ed actually has that in spades. He's an incredibly easily identifiable voice which becomes ingrained in your head, for better or worse. And I think that made it hard for many people to be able to accept the songs in any other way. But it far from made Chris bad, just different. Also, for keeping record, Ed was far, far, far more touched up in the studio in terms of vocal help and tuning in latter years than Chris was on The Turn. That was even confirmed by people who had been in the studio with both.

This post has been edited by vivapokey: Oct 30 2016, 3:59 am

[vivapokey]

Very few would put the turn over tdth

TDTH maybe, but in terms of the era in general - I found Ed even on the TDTH tour to be overly shrill and often hard to listen to. Tours prior to 99 or so, then yeah that's a bit different.

[ThrowgnCpr]

Very few would put the turn over tdth

I would

[alexou]

I think Ed's voice/attitude started to change at about the last leg of the SS tour. By then, his anger in songs from TC and even SS was less perceptible. And I put The turn before TDTH. The memorable songs from The Turn are better than the ones from TDTH.

This post has been edited by alexou: Oct 30 2016, 8:27 am

[SJN1279]

I think Ed's voice/attitude started to change at about the last leg of the SS tour. By then, his anger in songs from TC and even SS was less perceptible. And I put The turn before TDTH. The memorable songs from The Turn are better than the ones from TDTH.

I found The Turn to be unlistenable. I wasn't a fan of The Gracious Few's album either, but I thought it was way better than The Turn. It wasn't Live at all, sounded more like a bad Fuel album.

This post has been edited by SJN1279: Oct 30 2016, 8:36 am

[SJN1279]

. But it far from made Chris bad, just different. Also, for keeping record, Ed was far, far, far more touched up in the studio in terms of vocal help and tuning in latter years than Chris was on The Turn. That was even confirmed by people who had been in the studio with both.

Maybe they should have touched Chris up a bit more.....

[mfitz804]

TDTH maybe, but in terms of the era in general - I found Ed even on the TDTH tour to be overly shrill and often hard to listen to. Tours prior to 99 or so, then yeah that's a bit different.

It was the start of the excessive, awful falsettos, also.

[Voodoo Lady]

No you couldn't, and yes he was

Yeah he would forget some lyrics, but, I didn't care. It was raw, real, not a produced stage show like Ed got to being. He had raw power that Ed has long forgotten. Chris was not as a "pretty" singer as Ed became. Ed tried to make TC era songs sound like they were Taylor Swift songs with the way he would approach them. Chris was more inventive even with just a mic in hand - he played with space and used his distance from the mic to actually sound interesting. And any singer where I can go "man that was Jeff Buckleyesque" at times is not a bad singer. You might not personally like his voice because it's not what you were used to but to completely discredit him as a singer is showing insane bias. Even before Ed became jealous of him he praised him as a singer when he had no conflict of interest. Was he perfect? No, who is? But he was damn good and brought energy and a tone to the role that had been vacant for a long time. Seeing him live when I did he didn't put a foot wrong and it was easily the best I have heard the band since the 1997 tour. He didn't have as much "character" in his voice as Ed does. Ed actually has that in spades. He's an incredibly easily identifiable voice which becomes ingrained in your head, for better or worse. And I think that made it hard for many people to be able to accept the songs in any other way. But it far from made Chris bad, just different. Also, for keeping record, Ed was far, far, far more touched up in the studio in terms of vocal help and tuning in latter years than Chris was on The Turn. That was even confirmed by people who had been in the studio with both.

First off, I think you would argue with a fence post! I'll bet you are a cool person face-to-face, but damn.

Secondly, you have no idea what type of singer I am. I just might sing for a garage band for all you know! A good producer can work magic in a studio. SJN beat me to the punch--yes, maybe they should have touched up Chris' voice a little more, then.

I -will- agree with you on a couple of things. Yes, Ed's voice is very identifiable which makes it extremely difficult for CCP to try and replace with a singer fans would be willing to accept. However, if they would have picked a good one (once again, someone as good or better than Ed), I would have been accepting. I am not "biased" (a.k.a. an EK butt kisser).

I also agree that S.S. was Ed's peak both creatively and vocally. (Even though, TDTH is a still a
better album than The Turn). We all know Ed wrecked his voice. Most, if not all, singers eventually do. You can read my replies scattered throughout the board about how I feel about complaints of Ed's voice... in short, we don't have much to complain about there. Ed can still bring it. And yes, I'm sure you are just going to love this, but I rate his wrecked voice higher than Chris any day. Chris' sound is average; run of the mill. Stage presence is very poor.

I also agree that Ed got too Taylor Swift-y. I hope he finds his inner-punk again. I don't know if getting married changed him, he stopped/started smokin' something, who knows. I have faith that he still has that crazy in him somewhere. But if not, I'm still going to thank my lucky stars for a successful reunion and tour. And I'm getting tired of debating about CS. He's gone, I just want to forget it ever happened.

This post has been edited by Voodoo Lady: Oct 30 2016, 11:54 am

[Voodoo Lady]

Very few would put the turn over tdth

When I first listened to it, I wanted it to be. I might have ranked it higher for a minute because there are songs I don't like on TDTH at all. --Songs that aren't rock, but rather Christian Contemporary. At least the Turn is a rock album. But on the other hand, some of my favorite songs are on TDTH (Voodoo Lady, hello) and some of Ed's deepest thoughts. ("Deep Thoughts" by Ed Kowalczyk not Jack Handy). This caused me such inner struggle, so I had to bump it down. They key for me is, CS should never, ever, never sang LIVE's earlier songs. We wouldn't have this issue right now if he hadn't. They shouldn't have went by Live. Gracious Few 2.0 or a brand new, entirely different name. Probably then I would still have it in my rotation.

This post has been edited by Voodoo Lady: Oct 30 2016, 11:51 am

[vivapokey]

First off, I think you would argue with a fence post! I'll bet you are a cool person face-to-face, but damn.

Secondly, you have no idea what type of singer I am. I just might sing for a garage band for all you know! A good producer can work magic in a studio. SJN beat me to the punch--yes, maybe they should have touched up Chris' voice a little more, then.

I -will- agree with you on a couple of things. Yes, Ed's voice is very identifiable which makes it extremely difficult for CCP to try and replace with a singer fans would be willing to accept. However, if they would have picked a good one (once again, someone as good or better than Ed), I would have been accepting. I am not "biased" (a.k.a. an EK butt kisser).

I also agree that S.S. was Ed's peak both creatively and vocally. (Even though, TDTH is a still a
better album than The Turn). We all know Ed wrecked his voice. Most, if not all, singers eventually do. You can read my replies scattered throughout the board about how I feel about complaints of Ed's voice... in short, we don't have much to complain about there. Ed can still bring it. And yes, I'm sure you are just going to love this, but I rate his wrecked voice higher than Chris any day. Chris' sound is average; run of the mill. Stage presence is very poor.

I also agree that Ed got too Taylor Swift-y. I hope he finds his inner-punk again. I don't know if getting married changed him, he stopped/started smokin' something, who knows. I have faith that he still has that crazy in him somewhere. But if not, I'm still going to thank my lucky stars for a successful reunion and tour. And I'm getting tired of debating about CS. He's gone, I just want to forget it ever happened.

I'm not going to argue any more with you about it then. Clearly you can't stand Chris as is evident from pretty much any time I've checked in here you've been bitching about him so, what's the point?

If a good producer has to work magic for you to sound any way acceptable, then thats a terrible shame and you should probably look for a different job. Honestly, I found Chris superior to Ed in basically every way since at least around 98-99. Too bad though if you want to forget it ever happened (which is what Live will probably do, as they like to rewrite their own history). Whether people like it or not, Chris was the lead singer of Live for a few years. Just as whether some people like it or not, Live took a big turd in the studio and created SFBM. I'm just thankful for the years with Chris as it allowed me for a time to really rediscover my love for Live in a way I hadn't felt since the turn of the century. Further to that, as I say, the gig I saw them play here which was outstanding. His stage presence was great because he felt like part of the band. Not a solo singer where its all "me me me" and every gig feels rehearsed and the same. There was passion, desperation, angst, realness... warts and all. It wasn't a cookie-cutter, "safe" ego-fuelled trip. So, give me Chris any day.
To me, all I have to do is listen to examples of them singing the same songs in the same era. The AC/TC show provided me with probably the best rendition of POD I have ever heard. Even with the poor quality recording. Meanwhile, Ed's live TC album from Sydney was absolutely garbage (even controlling for his terrible band).

They shouldn't have went by Live. Gracious Few 2.0 or a brand new, entirely different name. Probably then I would still have it in my rotation.

But if CS is such an awful singer, why would the name of the band mean you may still have it in your rotation? If he is so bad, then surely the name of the band means absolutely nothing. And if it's purely because you don't like the way he sings old Live songs - then that is more bias than anything (and shouldn't effect The Turn because, as far as I know, there are no old Live songs on The Turn.


So I'll leave it at that. But if the question which is asked here is ever asked - who is your preferred singer for Live - Chris Shinn.

This post has been edited by vivapokey: Oct 30 2016, 1:09 pm

[Voodoo Lady]

Once again vivapokey, you have over-analyzed. I have said CS's voice is average, not outstanding. He is okay on studio productions. Not as good or better than EK, which is what it would have taken for Live 2.0 to be succesful. The performances I saw of him on stage were no good. I trust you that you saw a good show...I've seen others here say they have seen him be good but also horrible...very inconsistent. And the cherry on the "I've gone to shit sundae" for me was to hear him sing, "Chained to pain."

You are lying to yourself to rank him higher. Case closed. I'm not arguing about it anymore either. Agree to disagree.

P.S. I didn't say I would need a producer to work magic on my voice, either.

[vivapokey]

Once again vivapokey, you have over-analyzed. I have said CS's voice is average, not outstanding. He is okay on studio productions. Not as good or better than EK, which is what it would have taken for Live 2.0 to be succesful. The performances I saw of him on stage were no good. I trust you that you saw a good show...I've seen others here say they have seen him be good but also horrible...very inconsistent. And the cherry on the "I've gone to shit sundae" for me was to hear him sing, "Chained to pain."

You are lying to yourself to rank him higher. Case closed. I'm not arguing about it anymore either. Agree to disagree.

P.S. I didn't say I would need a producer to work magic on my voice, either.

You are lying to yourself to rank Ed post 98 higher. Case closed. I can say that too

P.S I never meant you as in YOU, more you as in the collective you, meaning anyone who needs a producer to work magic. Although if I had to put money on it I'd say you do too...but that's not personal, i just rate relatively few people as actually having good voices.

Either way that wraps it up. Chris > Ed.

[throwing_cheetahs]

Ed's voice was good on "V", great on "BOP" and good on "SFBM". On "TDTH" he had this strange vibrating shrill thing going on, his voice was the worst on that album.

This post has been edited by throwing_cheetahs: Oct 30 2016, 2:07 pm

[vivapokey]

Ed's voice was good on "V", great on "BOP" and good on "SFBM".

On the albums? Sure, because you get a million takes and studio assistance. I mean he still sounded awful compared to his earlier work. But he sang his guts out on BOP. His vocals were far from the worst parts of those albums though. But I don't think you can talk only in terms of albums, there's tours etc that span that whole period. I think in a lot of ways his vocals on BOP were better than TDTH, V and SFBM