We Open The Door, available to stream at Pledgemusic.com Options

[Live4Life]

When you spot crazy it's best to ignore and not engage it.

Exactly.

Which is why i stay away from here for the most part now because i knew the flock would come and claim how "great " this cd is.


Your only recourse is to insult. Have at it big guy. Just makes you look like a fool.

This post has been edited by Live4Life: Oct 1 2014, 3:37 pm

[ThrowgnCpr]

I mostly hate the internet.

[SinfulEyes]

I mostly hate the internet.

Why is that?

[sellingthdrama]

There is no intangible "thing" there. I mean, let's get serious.

I was serious - I felt "the thing". "The thing" is within us, it's not the music. The music brings it out. Like if you make one guitar string vibrate by plucking another of the same note. Live plucked. I vibrated.

No, it's not like it used to be. But I felt it.

This post has been edited by sellingthdrama: Oct 1 2014, 3:56 pm

[SinfulEyes]

I was serious - I felt "the thing". "The thing" is within us, it's not the music. The music brings it out. Like if you make one guitar string vibrate by plucking another of the same note. Live plucked. I vibrated.

No, it's not like it used to be. But I felt it.

Some people will never understand what you just described.

[feverpusher]

I applaud you. Great post. You took the words right out of my mouth. I still say they should have stuck with TGF.[u]

I actually really tried to listen and give it a go being that despite what people think i love and support CCP.
[b] I think some are just afraid to admit because they believe they have this "tightness" with band members and they are grasping so bad so they just claim to love every track.

There is no intangible "thing" there. I mean, let's get serious.
The music is okay but not anything to grab you at all.

Well said!!!
In contrast to be a subscriber to this message board, I've been a reader for quite a few years, and quite frankly, just felt the need to finally come out and say something, in hopes to understand other viewpoints better... and hopefully, stress my concerns to the band directly, of whom I hope is also reading.

It's very weird, but normally I wouldn't care as much if it was some 'other' band. Take for example Stone Temple Pilots or the next band that went through 'singer' changes. I would take it for what it's worth and move on (if so desired) if they changed singers and/or direction, and wouldn't think twice about it. I think in the case of +Live+ (and what makes it so upsetting to me) is the fact that they were considered to be my absolute favorite band. Over the years they seemed to get better and better...then to OK, to just 'ehh'. I didn't know what to expect with TGF, that band just spoke to me! That to me was a NEW direction, without the need to keep plugging into the past and or continuing a certain legacy. As I understood, the guys were ready to 'rock' it out again, based on pent up frustration. So to me, TGF (I felt) brought that energy. Reviving +Live+ (to me) feels like more of a spiritual quest rather than a band that is hungry and wants to get out there and kick some ass again. I do give them credit for trying, because I think they are really trying. Hell, CT is an open book and you can feel his emotion and passion in each word that he speaks to help promote. I feel for him. BUT as another poster had suggested, I don't see this album/cd making a lot of noise. I don't feel it's necessarily because of a new singer, but it's based on the amount of downtime that has occurred, mixed frustrations that have built, and quite simply, where +Live+ is placed in the category of 'rock' music today.

[Bremang]

I could see Kevin Martin doing vocals on Siren's Call for the opening track on a second TGF album...might have been cool!

[Voodoo Lady]

Live4life: Thank you for the applause. I commend your comments as well regarding +LIVE+ and Shinn. As for the drama on the board, since I'm a newb here, I don't know much about that. But I can tell you that after participating in message boards for music and sports of my interests since Internet began, they are all the same--drama and enemies in every single one. However, I have a need to talk with others about music that I love (the magic power) in me and that good outweighs the bad/drama. In fact, when I was a kid, I was a pen pal (yes, snail mail) to hundreds (before technology) discussing music. Twenty five years later, I have made many lifelong friends through mail and boards, some who I've had the pleasure of meeting. A quote by Alex Gaskarth (don't ask me who he is though) wonderfully summarizes my love for music, its affect on my life, and the connections to fans: "Never underestimate a girl's love for her favorite band. Never think, even for a minute, that she won't defend them to her death. Because it's not just the music that makes the band her favorite. It's the guys, it's the gals, it's the fans. People of whom she has interacted with, thanks to the band. That band might have saved her life. Or maybe they just make her smile every day.  That girl's favorite band, they've never broken her heart. They have yet to leave her.  No wonder she finds such joy in their music."
Even though +LIVE+ sort of is the first band to leave me.

feverpusher, I enjoyed reading your post. You have many valid points. I really enjoyed TGF too and if they have to carry on with +LIVE+, they should just stick with new material. I think because Ed's lyrics are so deeply personal to him, they should have never had Shinn sing his songs. Hearing
Shinn sing the old stuff hurt me to my soul and was SO disrespectful to Ed. Whether you hate Ed
now or are indifferent, you have to admit it was/is in bad taste.

[Voodoo Lady]

I could see Kevin Martin doing vocals on Siren's Call for the opening track on a second TGF album...might have been cool!

Agreed!

[Hoodstock]

I have to say that the guitars, bass and drums definitely sound like something off of a Live album to me. They have a distinct sound and I think it shows in these recordings. I like what I've heard from the 3 songs so far, but no - it does not capture me like MJ, TC, SS, or TDTH did. Good stuff, but not magical. I'll probably never find that with a band again. CS is not early Ed. Neither is Ed today, however.

I put what I've heard on par with TGF - which I liked. Sounds like good rock music. Looking forward to playing the entire album.

I'm glad all of the original band is happy and making the music that they want. If you listen to Ed's solo stuff, TGF, and what we've heard of The Turn it's obvious that putting the original lineup back together just would not work.

I'd say listen to it for what it is and enjoy it all. None of these guys owes you anything. Keep in mind they could all be doing odd jobs and working at something else like many other bands of their time. Appreciate the various efforts, enjoy music that you like, and keep it all in perspective.

[feverpusher]

I'd say listen to it for what it is and enjoy it all. None of these guys owes you anything. Keep in mind they could all be doing odd jobs and working at something else like many other bands of their time. Appreciate the various efforts, enjoy music that you like, and keep it all in perspective.

Overall, I think that's a healthy approach toward viewing their music. Basically, it is what it is HOWEVER, the same fans that are on this board, on facebook, Twitter, on line waiting for tickets, and at home dreaming and wishing are the same fans that have been supporting the band for 'x' amount of time. So with that in mind, there is and was naturally a feeling of 'connection' and allegiance to them. In that same breath, there builds a sense of expectation in how they proceed as a band and with future material. So as a band member, it might be perceived as an opportunity to appreciate such support and give a little back. Certainly , they don't owe us money or anything like that, but I think one might feel let down if the momentum had been altered or dropped in anyway.

If you really look at it, they do have some back/side stories...hence other jobs. I think a lot of their decision making has to do with age, becoming content from their past experiences and now (because of the 'music' industry today), having the ability to self create and produce themselves, in a manner that suites their needs and time constraints. If you notice, the guys took their time with creating this album/cd. There were no outside marketing/industry commitments telling them what to do, and when to do it. So naturally, they took their time to experiment and get deep (in a sense). Based on what Taylor said about creating this particular song, there seemed to be a lot of thought and emotion behind it. When you're rushed (hence the 1990s/2000 era), you're forced to produce and appeal to a demanding audience. Basically, who's going to buy the album. But nowadays, with no pressures, they can release when they please, however they please. Remember, they are also family men and business men, with their respective side and joint ventures. So making a CD is not necessarily a priority. Plus, they now how all the time in the world, SO...why not play around a bit. Why be super aggresive on every song? What's the motivation? So, that's basically how I'm seeing it. I had to sit down and really think about this situation a bit. The above is strictly my observation, and in no ways meant to cause tension with anyone on this board.

But anyway, it sucks, but...what can I do?

[Costakoui]

I applaud you. Great post. You took the words right out of my mouth. I still say they should have stuck with TGF.

I actually really tried to listen and give it a go being that despite what people think i love and support CCP.
I think some are just afraid to admit because they believe they have this "tightness" with band members and they are grasping so bad so they just claim to love every track.

There is no intangible "thing" there. I mean, let's get serious.
The music is okay but not anything to grab you at all.
You guys are reaching for it but it just isn't there.
I think it's great they kept going and that they are still making music they love but it just isn't there for me.
I just can't get into it.

Also, The shit fans did to some people... All the waiting and court shit and they way all of the clan just came and wrecked this place and good lord, the whole NICK deal. What's sad is Nick is a fan, he is not a troll and never was.

He is the bigger person and always has been. I could go on and on but why bother.....the stuff with my cats that died, my son being harrassed blahhh blahhhh.
All of that tied in and stuff..uhh, just drew me away and not wanting to bother.
I can't be lumped in with people like that. You think fans do not make a difference but in this case they did. And i know i am not the only one thinking this and i know others feel the same way.

I have been a member her now for 8 years and i used to like everyone here. But then "it" happened and blam....things changed, fans changed, i saw the true colors and frankly, it freaked me out.

Sorry for the novel. I usually don't post much. Take it for what it is.

You can disagree all you want but going as far as insulting me and others because you don't like their opinions.. and calling people names..etc.. picking people apart because of opinions or just because you don't like them just plain sucks.
There are going to be people that do not like the music, DEAL with it.

Who told you to like the music? If you do not like it, don’t like it, I personally do not give a shit!!!

To imply, however, that SC is not good, well I urge to go back and listen V and SFBM for some outstanding Live music

[PhoenixDecay]

I think some people put too much importance into a band and into their own story with them. Look, some people did have to go through this breakup a long time ago, slowly realizing that this band wouldn't be the same as before, some do this now. It hurts, because so many things are attached to your favourite band, like Voodoo Lady says, the music that helped you, the fans you met and become friends through your journey with the band. It's like a relationship. An often used analogy is the relationship you have to your parents. And the last ten years they were just together for safety reasons, although they didn't love each other. And now they are divorced and for some reasons you think you have to chose between them and blame one part, because someone has to take responsibility for your pain. Someone just has to.

The thing is: band are not parents. They don't have to be loved by their children by definition.
Bands are a combination of musical individuals, who have the luck that some combinations "work" better with more people, making them popular. I call it "work" because not everything you like about music is objectively identifiable. Of course there are objective elements - you can study music after all. But which combination will work to you, which brings the magic, resonating with your heart, that can be completely subjective.

And now we have the case that a part of a working combination left the band. And there is another combination now. And with a lot of people this combination resonates, and with a lot of others it doesn't.
And now combine this with the emotions of children going through a divorce.

Ed Kowalczyck was a powerful singer, with a very unique voice, who had his weaknesses as a vocalist as well. I know a lot of people who didn't like this unique thing in his voice and say he is a terrible singer. Can you imagine that? How do you feel about that?
Chris Shinn is by no means a weak singer. This statement is just bold. From a lot of objective points you can rate him a lot higher than other singers. If you are honest: To say he is weak is just your way to say he doesn't resonate with you as the other did. But how should people, who like him more, feel about, your statement? It's the same.
Again, I am not saying there aren't weak vocalists out there and you shouldn't name them, because you could hurt feelings. My point is, it's not the case with Shinn. You just don't like his voice, that's all and the handling of him is unfair.

Adding to this I don't think it's by any means disrespectful to sing the words of someone else. It may be disrespectful to you, because deep in your heart you feel, this guy has stolen my band. But if someone else use your words it's a compliment. Ed's band uses mostly the music of CCP. I, being a drummer myself, would see that as a compliment of my own creation.
It would be disrespectful if you wouldn't use the creation of others seriously or you use it just to make money out of it, without standing behind it.
Of course you will never know if the latter is really the case. But they never gave any hint fot that and their performances don't give any hints either. They take Live, it's heritage, it's identity seriously and that's all that matters when it comes to respect.

This post has been edited by PhoenixDecay: Oct 2 2014, 5:30 am

[WaiterAtCliftons]

I think some people put too much importance into a band and into their own story with them. Look, some people did have to go through this breakup a long time ago, slowly realizing that this band wouldn't be the same as before, some do this now. It hurts, because so many things are attached to your favourite band, like Voodoo Lady says, the music that helped you, the fans you met and become friends through your journey with the band. It's like a relationship. An often used analogy is the relationship you have to your parents. And the last ten years they were just together for safety reasons, although they didn't love each other. And now they are divorced and for some reasons you think you have to chose between them and blame one part, because someone has to take responsibility for your pain. Someone just has to.

The thing is: band are not parents. They don't have to be loved by their children by definition.
Bands are a combination of musical individuals, who have the luck that some combinations "work" better with more people, making them popular. I call it "work" because not everything you like about music is objectively identifiable. Of course there are objective elements - you can study music after all. But which combination will work to you, which brings the magic, resonating with your heart, that can be completely subjective.

And now we have the case that a part of a working combination left the band. And there is another combination now. And with a lot of people this combination resonates, and with a lot of others it doesn't.
And now combine this with the emotions of children going through a divorce.

Ed Kowalczyck was a powerful singer, with a very unique voice, who had his weaknesses as a vocalist as well. I know a lot of people who didn't like this unique thing in his voice and say he is a terrible singer. Can you imagine that? How do you feel about that?
Chris Shinn is by no means a weak singer. This statement is just bold. From a lot of objective points you can rate him a lot higher than other singers. If you are honest: To say he is weak is just your way to say he doesn't resonate with you as the other did. But how should people, who like him more, feel about, your statement? It's the same.
Again, I am not saying there aren't weak vocalists out there and you shouldn't name them, because you could hurt feelings. My point is, it's not the case with Shinn. You just don't like his voice, that's all and the handling of him is unfair.

Adding to this I don't think it's by any means disrespectful to sing the words of someone else. It may be disrespectful to you, because deep in your heart you feel, this guy has stolen my band. But if someone else use your words it's a compliment. Ed's band uses mostly the music of CCP. I, being a drummer myself, would see that as a compliment of my own creation.
It would be disrespectful if you wouldn't use the creation of others seriously or you use it just to make money out of it, without standing behind it.
Of course you will never know if the latter is really the case. But they never gave any hint fot that and their performances don't give any hints either. They take Live, it's heritage, it's identity seriously and that's all that matters when it comes to respect.

Well said. I can understand why some people around here do take sides, but I don't think CCP or Ed really care one way or another. They obviously both want people to like and support their music, but at the same time any professional artist knows that is not always going to be the case. Personally, I feel like Ed did do something awful to these guys who were his longtime band mates and above that, close friends. I was neither of those things to Ed, so while I was pissed because at the time no one was sure if we would ever get new +LIVE+ material. But when CCP announced plans for the band moving forward, it kind of took some of that angst away that I had towards Ed.

I think both sides are not being honest when they say that one or the other are terrible. Ed may not be the same singer/songwriter he was in the 90's, but his music IMO isn't terrible. I will still listen to new +LIVE+ stuff any day of the week over Ed's music, just because I prefer their style more. But I also occasionally will listen to Ed's stuff, and enjoy most of it for what it is. I Find it to be more enjoyable than a lot of other new music out there. That being said, I only listen to it on Spotify, which is a streaming music service. I will not buy any of his stuff or go to his shows, because I don't agree with the way he handled things with CCP.

You can look at it two ways I think. Be pissed about the entire situation and take sides, or just enjoy all the music we have gotten over the past 5 years from these guys who used to make up our favorite band. We had TGF, now a new +LIVE+ album, Ed has put out 2 albums and an EP. That is a lot of music the last 5 years from the guys I grew up listening to and who were and still are a big part of my life.

This post has been edited by WaiterAtCliftons: Oct 2 2014, 8:03 am

[PhoenixDecay]

You can look at it two ways I think. Be pissed about the entire situation and take sides, or just enjoy all the music we have gotten over the past 5 years from these guys who used to make up our favorite band. We had TGF, now a new +LIVE+ album, Ed has put out 2 albums and an EP. That is a lot of music the last 5 years from the guys I grew up listening to and who were and still are a big part of my life.

Exactly!
A lot of people make it really difficult for themselves. I get the whole thing aswell. I was emotional, too. For some time ...
But like you said, TGF, two Ed albums. It is a long time since it happend. And none of the music is even exceptionally bad, even if I don't like the style Ed is offering. I mean, even Live's music, being my favourite for a part of my life is not the pinnacle of musical quality. It just resonates with us.

I shouldn't care, but I am reading this board on a regular basis and I often just think: When is the time people stop and move on?