Ed Kowalczyk = Douche bag and you can't deny it..... Options

[mfitz804]

The relationship was toast, no matter who was right and who was wrong. Ed did the only thing he could do. To think that he could continue participating in a band where the other guys 1) don't trust him and 2) have a different musical direction is incredibly short sighted.

All other things aside, Ed wants to make the music Ed wants to make. CCP want to make the music they want to make. Move on, buy one or both CD's and get over it!

[mfitz804]

Oh and for what its worth, when I used to play in bands, I very often would not only write lyrics and guitar parts, but also the bass part and drum parts for the other guys to play. Not that they didn't put their own stamp on it, but usually it started with my ideas.

Not saying that Ed did this, but its certainly possible to an extent. I don't believe there is any possibility he was writing the bass and drum parts on Mental Jewelry unless he is an amazing bass and drum player and we just don't know it, those parts were just too intricate. The subsequent albums I could see more.

The lack of complexity in the bass parts of the later albums has always upset me. I remember buying Throwing Copper on its release date, expecting Pat to be laying down some funky beats and it just wasn't there.

[Soxwsc]

Didn't CT publicly declare that he couldn't see himself ever working with Ed again let alone being in the same room with him?

The guys just didn't like each other, presumably started going downhill fast after the release of V and SFBM.

Well, it's been 7 years since their last album together.. doesn't seem that long ago. I think if this falling out hadn't been so ugly, CCP would've gladly "gotten back together as a band" to release TFATM after hearing it for the first time. Releasing this new album under Live and promoting it as the first record from the band in more than 7 years would've been a brilliant move, IMO.

[SinfulEyes]

In this day and age it's hard for fans to not get caught up in all of the information that comes at us so fast and frequently. Had all of these events transpired before the internet became mainstream, most of us would not have known about his failings as a friend and man and some of us would probably still be bopping along to his music despite it's shittiness.

[Live4Life]

Ed was not the Dave Grohl of Live

I'm sorry but yeah, yeah, he was.

I didn't quote all of your post, tldr. i figure you have it saved on your comp and it's copy n paste so you're all set. lol

[SinfulEyes]

Ed wishes he had 1/10th of the talent Grohl has.

[Live4Life]

Nahhh, doubt that. he seems to be doing prety fucking good for himself right now. LMFAO.

[Bremang]

It's been stated over and over that Ed walked away. That the band reached out at the end of the hiatus and Ed refused. At some point they had to technically fire him so they could move forward, but it was Ed that walked away. Ed at the time was claiming that he needed to explore a different path that he wanted something different from Live (all the while playing nothing but Live songs in shows). It was pretty well discussed, not sure how you missed.

I do enjoy talking about the breakup.

I believe you're claiming Ed is hypocritical for calling new Live counterfeit because you suggest he walked away from Live/CCP. How does that make him a hypocrite? (Did he really walk away? If so, would his walking away even be the pivotal moment in the bands split?)

I don't see hypocrisy in his statement because Ed merely asserts that he believes he was essential to Live, and a new lineup is not the real deal. I don't agree with him that Live should be considered counterfeit, but I don't see how the statement is hypocritical.

All I know is that your reasoning is rooted in the idea that Ed abandoned the others, and they had to let him go to move on. I think Ed's departure is actually an interesting scenario that is not cut and dry.

There's no doubt that Ed was terminated by CCP. When it comes to legalities and being in the band, there's no evidence that Ed made any affirmative indication that he would resign from Live, or that he had any intention of leaving the band for good.

As far as him "walking away" prior to being terminated, there's a lot of grey area there. You seem to have your facts wrong about which time in the hiatus CCP may have tried to reach Ed. The guys were toward the start of their vacation when CCP suddenly tried to raise Ed for questioning. The hiatus was announced in mid 2009 and was projected to be for "two years." Ed was completely processed and fired about 4-5 months into the hiatus. So it wasn't at the end of the planned hiatus, like you suggest.

As far as Ed being unresponsive to CCP reaching out to him, we have Chad's blog posts that delve very little into any details. While Live was on a break, and therefore didn't necessarily have any business with each other at the time, presumably Chad tried to reach Ed regarding a contractual dispute. Who knows what sort of communication that was. For all we know, CCP could have been furious at him and for whatever reason, Ed was not inclined to respond. It seems even if Ed did respond, the guys probably would have fired him and sued him if they thought he was stealing. Suggesting that Ed "walked away" seems to be a mute point if he was going to be fired anyway. We don't even know the outcome of CCP's claims to know whether CCP had a legal right to any money.

Of course, there's very few details where we could pinpoint how these guys separated over the course of the 2000's. It seems that over time Ed and CCP were not approving of each other's music and/or work ethic, and CCP say that Ed gave them an ultimatum in 2005 and articulated that he wanted complete control. Who knows the details of that. CCP apparently decided to let Ed win control (ironically there's definitely some hypocrisy in that.) While all that seems to be relevant to the events that lead to Ed possibly ignoring CCP, I don't see how that makes Ed hypocritical for saying he thinks that Live's current line-up isn't the real deal, when he believes that he is Live. Maybe you can explain the hypocrisy.



This post has been edited by Bremang: Sep 11 2013, 6:01 am

[Bremang]

On a side note, and I could be way off, but I feel the chords to the chorus of honest man/believe is reminiscent of the guitar chords to the chorus of Change.

[Bremang]

I think it's a bit disingenious to say "I wasn't there" so we have to assume 50/50. It's true that we probably don't know every little detail but it's also possible to err on the side that makes sense.

9) Shortly thereafter the hiatus was announced
10) Lawsuits, mudslinging, ect


It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a crystal ball to get the gist of what happened. Hiding behind a "I wasn't there so I don't know" argument isn't really valid applied to the broad scope of everything that we absolutely do know.

Between 9 and 10 Ed was fired.

You're suggesting to err on the side that "makes sense," by saying that the rumors Lakini was referring to is basically the truth. You are being presumptuous if you're saying that Chad's word is anything other than one side of a story we may never know for sure.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Sep 11 2013, 6:32 am

[Bremang]

Didn't CT publicly declare that he couldn't see himself ever working with Ed again let alone being in the same room with him?

That was Ed who said that. But Ed and Chad were both talking completely out of their ass throughout that period. They both said they would get the band back together. Promo horseshit. They both do it all the time.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Sep 11 2013, 6:34 am

[Bremang]

Ed wishes he had 1/10th of the talent Grohl has.

I think Ed was cooler in his prime than Grohl. Grohl's a legend but he couldn't write I alone or lightning crashes. Ed was far out.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Sep 11 2013, 6:39 am

[Lakini's Juice]

*sigh* SinfulEyes

Bottom line is: The anger will fade, they'll start missing eachother and we'll get a reunion tour and a new album within 5 years.

[SJN1279]

That was Ed who said that. But Ed and Chad were both talking completely out of their ass throughout that period. They both said they would get the band back together. Promo horseshit. They both do it all the time.

Chad Taylor said it as well.

[mattyeagles]

Chad Taylor said it as well.

I am not sure how people can see otherwise that is currently Eds decision not to be involved with Live. Chad said so much in an interview very recently. CCP wanted Ed to come back and he refused.