Ed Kowalczyk address Lawsuits and LIVE, Article 8/27/12 Options

[PillarOfDavidson]

PD posts on Live's FB page

http://www.fansoflive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4759

[Pokey]

I believe OTD, I'm sure things are moving with the album, they're taking their time and doing it right, for all the things they didn't get right with TGF, the one thing they did get right was the music, and I'm sure Live will be the same, there's a lot of things they could be doing a lot better as far as publicity and fan interaction and all that jazz goes, but I got no doubt that it's all at the expense of making sure the music is right.
I don't even really care so much about album/music updates, when it happens, it happens ... the only thing that is annoying is when they say something will happen, and it doesn't ... the website is the biggest example, Fish stated it well, that it was just not handled right, I don't care how big a fan you are of them, you can't defend absolutely everything they do as being right. I'd have preferred them to go without a website and just used facebook, it just looks bad with that thing hanging there like the ugly duckling no one wants.
The whole thing about getting people to sign up, and a competition and a regularly maintained site etc... it's not even about Live "owing" us anything, of course they don't, I more see it as them owing themselves, they take great pride in their music, and so they should, but this is one area where it seems their pride lacks. I understand plans change and things get pushed back and all that, but surely a quiet word to say so make sense. To all the legit people that we did get to sign up to the website, they must be thinking "well what the fuck did I sign up for?" (thats if they remember doing it at all), it doesn't give a good reflection of Live ... the hardcore fans, we might understand how they work and that it takes time, and yes I've said before, we're the important ones now, fuck the casuals. But, for the casuals that we want to actually try to get into Live, we made a big song and dance about it and then .... nothing, casual don't understand that like we do.

Anyways, that's all besides the point, just 2 cents worth on that little side topic. Bottom line is though, I'm happy to wait patiently for the music, when it boils down to it, that's all I really care about, the rest is just fluff to mull over until the music arrives.

[mfitz804]

I don't understand what people want from Live. Let them record their album, you'll have it when they are ready to give it to you.

Its not like they didn't already give us something to listen to, they re-recorded 4 classic tracks, which they didn't have to do. But it was a nice tease so we could at least hear what Shinn is going to sound like.

What do people expect, that they will release things online, for free, on a piece by piece basis, rather than taking care to record, master, and release a CD of new material? I don't see why they would do that.

[themaestro]

Jesus there are so many things I'd like to say about this but this sums it up best, This is Stupid! Or maybe a line from a Live song, Look where all this talking got us baby! Or, light up that cigarette she said and calm the fuck down. Seriously.

I'll try to keep it short(ish). First off, anyone clamoring for a reunion needs to stop for a second and wonder why there is talk of a reunion? Why aren't they together now. Or does that not matter. Just reunite so I can get my fix. I don't care or recognize all that other BS. Sounds like just the type of fans Ed is appealing to. Secondly, I believe CT when he says he'd welcome a reunion with Ed. But again, anyone that thinks that will happen without resolving what caused them to split is a moron or you're full of shit, like I think Ed is with this PR release. That would be light years from now anyway and it would have to start with Ed responding to their correspondence, which I don't think he has. So don't worry Live fans and CCCP supporters, Ed is not coming back anytime soon or likely ever. Which leads me to my last point, I'm a Live fan and I agree that certain things could maybe be handled a little better in terms of their communication with the fans. But not to the extent that I'll get up in arms over it. Just like I'd say to those "uninformed" fans clamoring for a reunion, perhaps there is more to the story. This is obviously a really fucked up situation so I have no idea what they are going through behind the scenes. I think they should be given the benefit of the doubt. Even if no one got their free song or whatever it was from the website promo. Big deal. I know when these guys can they will make it all good for everyone. So, Light Up That Cigarette and Calm the Fuck Down.

[sellingthdrama]

I've got to agree with the sentiment that hardcore Live fans do not want to see Ed back. The recordings with CS had such life to them; I haven't felt that way listening to Live in a long long time.

Does anyone really want another of any of the last 3 albums? Or does anyone think that if Ed came back, it would be better than that? Does anyone want to go to a Live concert and see Ed gesturing towards the sky and yelling at the crowd to sing along to the point of awkwardness?

Based on the article, Ed is truly lost in the maya; overboard in the sea...

And just quoting that song makes me miss old Ed again. But it matters not. Looking forward to new Live

[themaestro]

And just quoting that song makes me miss old Ed again. But it matters not. Looking forward to new Live

I figured I'd hear that, but CS is singing all those old lyrics anyway. Doesn't make me miss Ed one bit.

[rock4adiference]

This was a self-serving, totally sadistic move on Ed's part and also very predictable. He is trying to get them to drop the lawsuit.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is calculatingly trying to ruin their relationship with Chris, leaving the door open for him and then him saying....Nah, it was a thought, but I'm really not interested in "working with those individuals" again.

Seems like a guy who's starting to panic for many reasons. Financially, when CCP win the lawsuit and he can't promote himself the way he's been that will be devistating to his shows. When people hear Chris and realize that he's awesome and people don't give a crap if Ed is there or not. When they start to tour and the shows rock (I've seen 2, I know this first-hand!) what will this do to Ed's ego?

It's all very scary for him because he always felt like he had the upper hand in his relationship with them and with them moving on without him he's is starting to feel the pressure.

It's actually textbook narcicism if you ask me. I am not at all surprised by this. It's like the husband that left the wife for a younger, pretter, sexier woman and when the wife gets a boyfriend he freaks out and wants to come home. Most smart woman kick that POS to the curb!

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:

1.Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

2.Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

3.Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

4.Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

5.Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

6.Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

7.Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.

I hope and I think CCP have already seen that they don't NEED Ed to make music or be successful. I think KM showed them that and I can't wait to hear the new +Live+ record with Chris singing.

[OutToDry]

What do you mean "things are moving"? Even the insider isn't THAT positive. Anyway we'll hear in due time.

Does the lawsuit slow them down according to you?

Timing is everything eh? And to answer your q, Nope.

[OutToDry]

OTD - I respect you and I trust you completely when it comes to Live stuff, and I think you get it right about 100% of the time. Frankly, if it wasn't for your posts here and your assurances about what is happening in private, my level of freaking out would be 10 times what it is. But I don't think that as a fan, I should have to have faith in your posts on a message board in order wait patiently for something to happen after the announcement a year ago and the 2 shows in March. I don't agree with the approach they are taking from a music-business-management perspective and I don't think it is right for the fans. They don't have the luxury of a band at the peek of their popularity who can do things in secret and then spring it on a happy and awaiting massive fan base. With the Ed stuff, a new lead singer, coming off a series of mediocre albums, a skeptical and confused fan base and lack of market visibility, they need to be trying harder to make more waves, not protect a still pond.

You got your affirmation, good now

[OutToDry]

This was a self-serving, totally sadistic move on Ed's part and also very predictable. He is trying to get them to drop the lawsuit.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is calculatingly trying to ruin their relationship with Chris, leaving the door open for him and then him saying....Nah, it was a thought, but I'm really not interested in "working with those individuals" again.

Seems like a guy who's starting to panic for many reasons. Financially, when CCP win the lawsuit and he can't promote himself the way he's been that will be devistating to his shows. When people hear Chris and realize that he's awesome and people don't give a crap if Ed is there or not. When they start to tour and the shows rock (I've seen 2, I know this first-hand!) what will this do to Ed's ego?

It's all very scary for him because he always felt like he had the upper hand in his relationship with them and with them moving on without him he's is starting to feel the pressure.

It's actually textbook narcicism if you ask me. I am not at all surprised by this. It's like the husband that left the wife for a younger, pretter, sexier woman and when the wife gets a boyfriend he freaks out and wants to come home. Most smart woman kick that POS to the curb!

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:

1.Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

2.Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

3.Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

4.Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

5.Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

6.Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

7.Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.

I hope and I think CCP have already seen that they don't NEED Ed to make music or be successful. I think KM showed them that and I can't wait to hear the new +Live+ record with Chris singing.

This is a good assessment but I dont want to drag into slinging about Ed. The article was sheer madness.

[SJN1279]

The four of them should at least sit down, and see if they can come to an agreement or an understanding. Being together in a proper reunion tour, is their greatest chance for long term success.

This post has been edited by SJN1279: Aug 28 2012, 12:59 pm

[PillarOfDavidson]

1.Shamelessness: Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

2.Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

3.Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.

4.Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.

5.Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

6.Exploitation: Can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

7.Bad boundaries: Narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist are treated as if they are part of the narcissist and are expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist there is no boundary between self and other.

I've recently cut people out of my life who fit a number of these descriptions to a T. The strange thing is that at times I will miss this particular person. I'll be watching a tv show or just doing anything and I'll imagine what they'd do/say... if they'd find it funny... or whatever. But upon thinking about it every single time I have those thoughts and feelings it's always focused on how they would react, as if they're on a pedestal soaking up my mental attention. And I start to realize what being in a friendship or relationship with them really did to me as a person. I start to realize how much I was living to please them... and it infuriates the shit out of me every time because I find myself having to reestablish my resolve not to pick up the phone to call them and to remain out of contact from them.

The funny thing is... they probably haven't given me much thought at all since I cut them out. Sure, they may have called once or twice at first but after they subconsciously realize that their narcissist supply has been cut off they must seek out new avenues. I'm sure they'll eventually come around calling again looking for attention, but I'm not answering the door or picking up the phone. I'm done with them. The longer you stay away from them the less you think about them, the more you heal.

The fact is... this kind of shit is prevalent in the music scene. It's a stereotype that musicians are inherently narcissistic, but it's a stereotype for a reason. Musicians, especially singers/wanna-be singers, can be some of the most full of shit people you'll ever meet. Always full of entitlement, ever-wanting to be the center of attention, always needing affirmation. It's a funny dichotomy. They're cocky as hell because they're insecure as hell. Cockiness is the ultimate imitation of confidence.

Anyway... getting off that tangent now.

/2CentVent

[Merica]

The four of them should at least sit down, and see if they can come to an agreement or an understanding. Being together in a proper reunion tour, is their greatest chance for long term success.

Even if there was a reunion which, arguably, is very unlikely anyway - a 'reunion tour' is a naff, heritage act idea. If they get back together they should just be a normal band and make music together and then tour in support of it. A reunion tour is like a "hey we're done making music and happy to live off the past" tour. Plus, very few people in the wider world even know they were apart. Most will be like "Reunion? What? They were apart?"

[FishOutaWater]

The four of them should at least sit down, and see if they can come to an agreement or an understanding. Being together in a proper reunion tour, is their greatest chance for long term success.

Success, success, success, success, success, success, success, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You don't get it. It's simple:

Good music. Period. Full stop.

That is success.

I agree that they should sit down and talk though. It might clear away a lot of the trouble.

[SJN1279]

Success, success, success, success, success, success, success, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, ticket sales, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, venues, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, radio play, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, charts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You don't get it. It's simple:

Good music. Period. Full stop.

That is success.

I agree that they should sit down and talk though. It might clear away a lot of the trouble.

Then couldn't CCP make good music with Shinn and not use the name LIVE?