The Ride, Curious on what you all think... Options

[Good_Pain]

I am close friends with 2 of the biggest selling artist in Contemporary Christian Music history and I can tell you neither of them or their respective members are hurting financially. Funky is correct CCM is a huge industry that produces billions in income each year for its artist. I grew up in an area of the country where there are many talented musicians and I can name at least a dozen who are major stars. I can say without a doubt the 2 artist I know who are Christian artist are just as financially successful if not more than their contemporaries in the other genres.

This post has been edited by Good_Pain: Jul 27 2012, 4:30 pm

[jclive]

That first part's a good point. Second part, man, you can make a boat load in Christian music. It's big business man.

You can make a boat load anywhere i guess. But considering Ed's history of religious exploration, the Christian music thing just doesnt surprise me at all. I know im in the minority, but i just dont see this one as a money grab.

[Badman]

I think he honestly believes he is a christian but is really hesitant to make the complete jump over to the god side because he fears it will alienate the fans. The problem is that Ed has run out of things that inspire him and this is the only thing he has to sing about. He wants to continue providing for his family and keeps doing things to maintain his way of life. First, he asks for a lead singer's bonus. Second, he jettisons his band so that no one will argue with him. Third, he milks the live name and takes any venue that will accept him.

He is producing piss-poor music without any real passion or magic. What we are witnessing here is a man getting increasingly desperate and short sighted in an attempt to maintain his standard of living.

Good thread so far.

[PillarOfDavidson]

You can make a boat load anywhere i guess. But considering Ed's history of religious exploration, the Christian music thing just doesnt surprise me at all. I know im in the minority, but i just dont see this one as a money grab.

To me Christian music as a whole is a farce anyway. I'm still waiting for my first Buddhist rock album. When are they gonna get on that?

It's a marketing ploy and it's obvious in that. There isn't even the pretense of it not being that, unless you want to talk about that "we're not a Christian band, we're just Christians in a band" non-gimmick that a lot of those bands use. The Christian music industry prides itself on the blatant marketing that they do. It's always about money... that and the moral superiority of their acts/music/etc.

[OutToDry]

I am close friends with 2 of the biggest selling artist in Contemporary Christian Music history and I can tell you neither of them or their respective members are hurting financially. Funky is correct CCM is a huge industry that produces billions in income each year for its artist. I grew up in an area of the country where there are many talented musicians and I can name at least a dozen who are major stars. I can say without a doubt the 2 artist I know who are Christian artist are just as financially successful if not more than their contemporaries in the other genres.

Then there is real hope for Ed. Stop playing any Live songs except for one or two acoustic numbers and go all in on CCM. If he can create a new career outside of Live, then everyone should be happy.



Ed doesn't deserve Rock N Roll.

[jayda]

I think he honestly believes he is a christian but is really hesitant to make the complete jump over to the god side because he fears it will alienate the fans. The problem is that Ed has run out of things that inspire him and this is the only thing he has to sing about. He wants to continue providing for his family and keeps doing things to maintain his way of life. First, he asks for a lead singer's bonus. Second, he jettisons his band so that no one will argue with him. Third, he milks the live name and takes any venue that will accept him.

He is producing piss-poor music without any real passion or magic. What we are witnessing here is a man getting increasingly desperate and short sighted in an attempt to maintain his standard of living.

Good thread so far.

I think you summed it up.

[OutToDry]

I think he honestly believes he is a christian but is really hesitant to make the complete jump over to the god side because he fears it will alienate the fans. The problem is that Ed has run out of things that inspire him and this is the only thing he has to sing about. He wants to continue providing for his family and keeps doing things to maintain his way of life. First, he asks for a lead singer's bonus. Second, he jettisons his band so that no one will argue with him. Third, he milks the live name and takes any venue that will accept him.

He is producing piss-poor music without any real passion or magic. What we are witnessing here is a man getting increasingly desperate and short sighted in an attempt to maintain his standard of living.

Good thread so far.

Stellar!!

[makemedream]

All this debate is really interesting but answer me this... if he is truly inspired by his rebirth as he has stated..why is his lyric and song writing turned soooooooo shit? I dont listen to any christian radio here but is all of it like this crap Ed is dishing up now?

[PillarOfDavidson]

OTD... I just noticed the Throwing Copper pic in your signature. lol Hilarious...

[deepenoughtodive]

Fish,
If you are saying that the vast majority of people that would consider themselves Christian are actually not then I would agree and point you to Matthew 7 which backs that point up. But, by your own statements, you would be included in that group. How can you call yourself a Christian if you don't believe what Christ believed? He said He was the only Way. He either was who He claimed to be or He was a lunatic with a messiah complex.

I agree with whoever said they aren't sure Ed is really a born again Christian as he describes. His actions towards his lifelong friends and bandmates is anything but Christian.

[FishOutaWater]

Fish,
If you are saying that the vast majority of people that would consider themselves Christian are actually not then I would agree and point you to Matthew 7 which backs that point up. But, by your own statements, you would be included in that group. How can you call yourself a Christian if you don't believe what Christ believed? He said He was the only Way. He either was who He claimed to be or He was a lunatic with a messiah complex.

I agree with whoever said they aren't sure Ed is really a born again Christian as he describes. His actions towards his lifelong friends and bandmates is anything but Christian.

I think the binary choice that he either was what he says he was or he was a lunatic is a false choice. You are forgetting another option, which I think is the truth and which a majority of biblical scholars agree with. John is the only Gospel of the four included in the canon in which Jesus makes messianic claims about himself. It contains a much more evolved theological agenda than Matthew, Mark or Luke. The other three synoptic gospels do not contain those statements attributed to Jesus.

I don't think that Jesus ever actually made messianic claims about himself. John was written at least 60 years after Jesus' death, in a particular context, to particular people, to make a particular point, by a person who never met Jesus. I don't believe that God was guiding the hand of the gospel writers and the Nicean Council who decided to select the four books from among many and edit those books and include them into the bible. The parables and statements on which most scholars have reached a consensus that they are probably relatively accurately attributable to Jesus, all describe a theology that is very similar to all of the other world's major religions. The rest, I think, is man-made theology generated by a church growing in power in the Roman empire.

I think that most people who identify themselves as Christian could spend a lot more time educating themselves about the facts and what is out there being taught in main line seminaries and theological schools.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jul 28 2012, 4:41 pm

[Pokey]

Man it's so much easier being an athiest, where's the popcorn?

[deepenoughtodive]

Fish,
I'm curious, what draws you to Christianity if you don't believe Jesus was the Messiah and you don't believe that He believed it either?




Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"

Answer: Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason. “… you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. Notice that Jesus does not deny His claim to be God. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!” The response of the Jews who heard this statement was to take up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded them to do (Leviticus 24:15).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “the Word was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church—the church of God—with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11, 14:33, 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

[OutToDry]

this thread is turning to gotigrz levels, just kidding.

[Pokey]

It doesn't go to gotigrz levels until people tell each other they're going to hell


Fish - my question is, for someone so knowledgable in religion and so many religions and spirituality in general... What makes you say you're a Christian then? Out of all the stuff you've read and the fact you seem extremely rational and well grounded so you've obviously chosen Christianity above the others as the one that is the right one, but why it? Personally I think they all (almost) make about as much sense as each other. I can't see any religion ever winning me over as much as a simple talk from Richard Dawkins

I think I find the history of religion interesting, but to me it's about the same as the history of nursery rhymes... Just more interesting because of the effect it's had on people. When I was in Malaysia earlier this month I was in a city with so many different religions living harmoniously side by side it was fantastic. I went into this huge mosque and the Imam had a long chat with me discussing the shared beliefs of Islam, Judaism and Christianity which was really interesting, he went on what I think was the biggest anti terrorism rant I have ever heard (and I thought Americans hated terrorists, they had nothing on this guys take on terrorists making him and his people into bad guys). It was great... Then he started quoting things that Mary said, and suddenly wrapped this in with the history and I guess that's where I drew the line.
So I'm not surprised at your fascination in religion, but surprised that you chose one and went "yep, that's the one!"