The Ride, Curious on what you all think... Options

[OutToDry]

Are those technical terms OTD?

Notice I didn't use la's poke

[World Dreamer]

Maybe you're just focusing on these lines:

"In the west we think we're the best
We've shown the whole wide world that money is all we care for"

??

I don't think there is any particular person he's talking about in the song. I thought it was just a general song about spirituality and letting go of the material.

Probably so. I just keep hearing him talk about how we don't need money. And now all he can think about is money. Plus it sounds like he is praising the East and meditation, and now he is as West/Christian as it gets.

Oh well, came up on iTunes and I was the same way as some of you, I hadn't listened to it in a long time.

[FishOutaWater]

And now all he can think about is money. Plus it sounds like he is praising the East and meditation, and now he is as West/Christian as it gets.

This highlights the problem that I have with Ed being so Christian. This is really hard to say this without sounding negative about Chrisitianity. But I think this is just factual. When you look at Mental Jewelry and the teaching of Krishnamurti and Eastern Spirituality, they are about open, direct experiential, universal spirituality. No seperation or judgement or conditioning or attachment or "beliefs". No flags or mental jewelry, if you will. Christianity is (generally speaking) about accepting a set of beliefs. It is about following teachers and teachings and a canon. It is generally about how Christianity is the one true religion and all others are wrong because Jesus is the way to God. Thus, it is about seperation, exclusion, judgement, and FEAR. It is ALL about flags and mental jewelry. It is centered around beliefs and judgment and fear. It is exclusive, whereas, eastern spirituality is inclusive or, at least, non-exclusive. Christianity is really ego-centered, whereas Eastern spirituality is non-egoic. Many Christians do good deeds or give to charity in order to gain - to get into heaven or to add a checkmark in the positive column with God. That is ego-based behavior and not pure, altruistic compassion.

So for Ed to go full Christian - it betrays all of the enlightened thinking that he honored in the past. It seems like a spiritual regression. Again - it is hard to say this without sounding negative about Christianity. I think it is possible to be a Christian who practices it in a non-literal, non-exclusionary, eastern-inspired way. Personally, that is about where I am. And maybe that is where Ed is - but he doesn't present himself like that.

It is really disappointing to me.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jul 27 2012, 8:39 am

[deepenoughtodive]

That's a lame deceptive description of Christianity Fish.

[FishOutaWater]

That's a lame deceptive description of Christianity Fish.

Am I wrong in saying that most of mainstream Christianity involves believing that God became a human being who needed to be crucified and die and then raise from the dead as a sacrifice for our sins and if you believe that and accept Jesus as your savior, then you go to heaven and if you don't then you go to hell? Isn't the basis of prosteletizing and missionary work that people who don't believe need to be converted so that they can be saved? The most vocal and visible elements of Christianity in America are the evangelicals and Baptists and denominations like that - and can you say that those are not based on fear, judgment and division? I know that I have sat through their services and it makes me uncomfortable because they tell you that you have to believe this and that or you are going to hell. Aren't the "beliefs" and the canon all focused on teaching someone what to believe instead of letting a person find it within themselves freely? Doesn't Christianity condemn homosexuals? Doesn't the Catholic Church say that you are ex-communicated and going to hell if you divorce and remarry or that you have committed a sin if you have pre-marital sex or use contraception? Doesn't the Catholic church say that different sins have different grade-levels (cardinal, venial, etc.) and that you have to go to a priest and tell him your sins and then get a homework assignment of prayers to say to work off the sins. I see all of that as activity operating at the ego-mind level. The reality is that if you become knowledgable of the philosophical difference between a Western style religion and an Eastern religion, these are really fundamentally different philosophical approaches to spirituality.

I am not trying to be critical. I am just calling a spade a spade.

As I said in my post, I consider myself a Christian, but I don't think that Christianity is the only path to God or that non-Christians are going to hell. And I have no idea whatsoever what Ed believes. But I think his current activity and interviews with Christian radio stations and websites, stokes the fundamentalist Christians.

P.S. - I tried to say "generally" and qualify my comments as much as possible, because I realize that I am making over-generalizations. My most pointed criticism is of the Christian fundamentalist beliefs, like those of evangelicals. I think it is pretty clear how you can draw a distinction between Eastern spiritual philosophy and Christian evangelicals. If you don't see a contrast in the philosophical underpinnings of those two approaches to spirituality, then I am afraid that I can't say any more to describe it. And in America, the most vocal and visible elements of Christianity (the Christian right if you will) are those parts. The moderate, centrist, progressive Christians (of which I think I am a part) are not out there on the news espousing their beliefs. I am not drawing the contrast with that aspect of Christianity. I think there are many Chritians who are pretty "enlightened" and "awake". I really don't think that what I said was lame.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jul 27 2012, 9:20 am

[jclive]

That's a lame deceptive description of Christianity Fish.

Agree 1000%.

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus. Its not about following anyone but Him. To be Christ-like is to love. See John 13:34-35. See also 1 John 4:7-12.

[rock4adiference]

That's a lame deceptive description of Christianity Fish.

I totally disagee.

This is the most honest description I've seen yet.

It is generally about how Christianity is the one true religion and all others are wrong because Jesus is the way to God. Thus, it is about seperation, exclusion, judgement, and FEAR. It is ALL about flags and mental jewelry. It is centered around beliefs and judgment and fear. It is exclusive, whereas, eastern spirituality is inclusive or, at least, non-exclusive. Christianity is really ego-centered, whereas Eastern spirituality is non-egoic. Many Christians do good deeds or give to charity in order to gain - to get into heaven or to add a checkmark in the positive column with God. That is ego-based behavior and not pure, altruistic compassion.

[FishOutaWater]

Agree 1000%.

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus. Its not about following anyone but Him. To be Christ-like is to love. See John 13:34-35. See also 1 John 4:7-12.

I agree with you 100% on everything you said. I really truly do. Do you see that my point is that there are millions of Christians in the U.S., who happen to be the ones most representative of what it means to be a Christian in the U.S., who do not approach it that way? Christianity is not a homogenous group. There are many differnt ways that people practice Christianity. I think that you and I are of the minority.

Although I do find it a little ironic though that of all the Gospels, you cited the Gospel of John for the premise that Christianity is not exclusionary and judgmental.

[Badman]

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus. Its not about following anyone but Him. To be Christ-like is to love. See John 13:34-35. See also 1 John 4:7-12.

Psssshhhhh

If this is the definition of christian, we would have about 15% of people as christians in the U.S. rather than 75%. Most christians are a lot more like fish has described and are far more into following the beliefs of the church than they are in following a 2000 year old teacher. Jesus would have loved homosexuals, black people, muslims, and prostitutes but many christians (they check the box on surveys) actively hate these groups.

I don't know ONE PERSON who acts like jesus. No one gives away all their material possessions and dedicates their lives to helping the wretches of society. You are dead wrong Jclive. You will probably retort that we can never be that much like jesus but I say buddhist monks do it all the time so don't go there.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

I doubt Ed would describe himself as the conservative Christian that Fish is describing. There are a lot of liberal Christians out there who aren't exclusivists.

Assuming that Ed believes any of it and isn't just trying to make a buck is a much bigger leap to me. His behavior doesn't strike me as Christian, conservative or liberal.

[Good_Pain]

I doubt Ed would describe himself as the conservative Christian that Fish is describing. There are a lot of liberal Christians out there who aren't exclusivists.

Assuming that Ed believes any of it and isn't just trying to make a buck is a much bigger leap to me. His behavior doesn't strike me as Christian, conservative or liberal.

Well stated Funky

[jclive]

Psssshhhhh

If this is the definition of christian, we would have about 15% of people as christians in the U.S. rather than 75%. Most christians are a lot more like fish has described and are far more into following the beliefs of the church than they are in following a 2000 year old teacher. Jesus would have loved homosexuals, black people, muslims, and prostitutes but many christians (they check the box on surveys) actively hate these groups.

I don't know ONE PERSON who acts like jesus. No one gives away all their material possessions and dedicates their lives to helping the wretches of society. You are dead wrong Jclive. You will probably retort that we can never be that much like jesus but I say buddhist monks do it all the time so don't go there.

That's the problem right there: too many definitions of "Christian."

Christians should judge themselves, not the non-believers. That is between them and God. (1 Corinthians 5:12-13).

I normally dont have a bunch of scriptures to quote, but my chruch did a series recently on this very topic. And I took good notes. If anyone is interested, here's the link: http://www.northpoint.org/messages/christian


P.S. No one has ever given me a survey asking which groups I actively hate...

[jclive]

I doubt Ed would describe himself as the conservative Christian that Fish is describing. There are a lot of liberal Christians out there who aren't exclusivists.

Assuming that Ed believes any of it and isn't just trying to make a buck is a much bigger leap to me. His behavior doesn't strike me as Christian, conservative or liberal.

It seems that he's always struggled with spirituality. Why would this time be any different?

If he was just after the almighty dollar, you'd think he would pick a more lucrative target market though...

[World Dreamer]

This reminds me of the Life of Brian debate in the late 70's.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

It seems that he's always struggled with spirituality. Why would this time be any different?

If he was just after the almighty dollar, you'd think he would pick a more lucrative target market though...

That first part's a good point. Second part, man, you can make a boat load in Christian music. It's big business man.