Ed's spirituality, And yours. Options

[Godiva]

I know I'm a nOOb, but this issue is one of the reasons I remain at least somewhat interested in Live's music and visionary nature... and I was wondering what the general attitude of posters on this board is regarding such matters.

I don't know a whole lot about what Ed subscribes to, I am more of an atheist-leaning agnostic. However, I find Ed's outlook on life refreshing... if one is to be a theist, then his kind of theism is the kind I can relate to and the kind I think can actually do some good in the world.

What about you guys? Have Live's songs connected with your spirit? Influenced your belief? What are your tendencies in things of a metaphysical nature?

I left Christianity in my early years of college. I found Live's older music extremely helpful to me during that time in my life (even though no one was playing those songs on the radio anymore).

[LiveattheOasis]

I like this, get onto the board and get right down into the important stuff

My own experience with Live has not changed my beliefs, but I have found them open-ended enough (and many times they are written in this sort of way) to connect to. I myself am a Christ-follower, while Ed seems to integrate alot of Eastern discussions of ultimate unity and oneness into his spirituality. I love the fact that he sings about things of a spiritual nature, because it forces one to engage in real thoughts, beliefs and questions. Live is my favorite band, will probably always be, for their uniqueness and creativity in the material they write and sing about.

[LiveattheOasis]

By the way, welcome to the board, I think you'll find most of us to be civil and open-minded about things. Hope you enjoy yourself!

[Godiva]

Thanks!

I like how Christians and non-Christians alike can appreciate his music.

However, when I was growing up and buying Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper, my Christian guitar teacher thought I was of the devil. And so did my youth group.

[teressa]

Thanks!

I like how Christians and non-Christians alike can appreciate his music.

However, when I was growing up and buying Mental Jewelry and Throwing Copper, my Christian guitar teacher thought I was of the devil. And so did my youth group.

Hey Godiva,

Great topic! I would have to say a big reason I have been a fan of Live for 12+ years now are how similar Ed's beliefs are to mine. His lyrics and spirituality just make sense to me and I love him for it.

[LiveattheOasis]

Wow, talk about different experiences. I grew up in a Church with a very conservative bent, and our music pastor was a huge fan of Live, especially Mental Jewelry. I found this out after I had liked Live for about a year.

[Godiva]

Wow, talk about different experiences. I grew up in a Church with a very conservative bent, and our music pastor was a huge fan of Live, especially Mental Jewelry. I found this out after I had liked Live for about a year.

"The beauty of grey..." "Pain lies on the Riverside..." "I've read, I've talked.... I know... I've been there before...." (from TC) ??? Conservative Christians don't believe in grey... what denom were you? Your conservative pastors seriously LIKED Live? Maybe you're from a more mainline background than you realize.

I'm confused. Although, my guitar teacher would tell me that "I Alone" was really about Satan tempting us. I'm not dissing Christians, but I find it amazing that they totally did not get the original meaning of the songs. Art's meaning is in the eye of the beholder, so I don't directly disagree with others' interpretations, but it seems to me that on Mental Jewelry especially, Ed/Live was talking about how Christianity didn't connect with him/them spiritually. Maybe I'm totally off.

I got a B.A. in religious studies (for no reason other than to learn stuff for fun, I am also a pharmacist) and while I got my degree, I became very interested in Eastern perspectives... so I really like the references to Zen and unity in the lyrics.

I am still a huge fan of Live's lyrics, but the music hasn't jived with me much lately. Some of it is beautiful, but I just have a hard time singing along when I don't necessarily agree with what I think he's trying to say. Maybe I just need to make it my own. I also think they aren't nearly as creative musically as they used to be... this whole soft rock anthem thing is getting a tad old. But I can still appreciate it, I just miss the experimental stuff.

This post has been edited by Godiva: May 25 2006, 4:12 pm

[LiveattheOasis]

No, the music pastor was a real big fan of the energy and spiritual questions that Live was asking. I am definitely not mainline, I can assure you, but I think I've just been around people who are open-minded, and haven't barricaded themeselves from the "Evil world", instead they have sought to make it better in the way of their choosing.

[LiveOne]

Wow, talk about different experiences. I grew up in a Church with a very conservative bent, and our music pastor was a huge fan of Live, especially Mental Jewelry. I found this out after I had liked Live for about a year.

Yup - at first listen, some of the lyrics in MJ sound a bit anti-religion, however, when you listen to the greater context of the song, it's all VERY spiritual. I grew up "Christian" myself, but one of the things I hate about organized religion is that it's all about converting everyone else to THAT particular belief system, whatever it is. I personally believe in Christ, but I don't believe that everyone who doesn't is going to burn in the fiery pits of hell for all eternity... Ed seems to be an all-inclusive kind of guy when it comes to religion/spirituality. I really dig that about him.

[Godiva]

No, the music pastor was a real big fan of the energy and spiritual questions that Live was asking. I am definitely not mainline, I can assure you, but I think I've just been around people who are open-minded, and haven't barricaded themeselves from the "Evil world", instead they have sought to make it better in the way of their choosing.

That's cool. I grew up around all types of people, my parents weren't religious, they were freethinkers, and they raised me Catholic just out of convenience, I think. My Protestant friends convinced me that I was going to Hell for my baptism, and so I converted to conservative evangelical Christianity.

I struggled with open-minded and liberal Christianity before I left, but in the end, I never could bring myself to say that I believed Jesus was any more Divine than anyone or anything else. Surely, not someone to be worshipped. Plus, I don't believe in miracles, virgin births, resurrections, so that was also another roadblock for me... I live in the Midwest, so liberal Christians are few and far between in any organized setting. I am more a scientific person, so I have a hard time with the supernatural.. but life is a journey and I'm sure that I will change my mind again someday. I tried a Unitarian Univers. church for a while too, but life just makes more sense to me right now if viewed naturalistically.

[LiveattheOasis]

See I think that is good, no one should put up fences between beliefs and thoughts about religion and such. People should have their opinions but as soon as someone refrains from discussion or thinking they become the people who turn everyone else away from them, as they have chosen ignorance instead of continued insight and glimpses into people outside of themselves.

[FishOutaWater]

I really get a strong spiritual message from many of Ed's lyrics. I could discuss that for hours.

You mentioned "I Alone" so I thought I'd respond with something based on a post that I made on the friendsoflive.com board some months ago. It has to do with a philosophical interpretation of the song.

I listened to an interview with Ed once in which he discussed I Alone and he mentioned that he was reading alot of Krishnamurti at the time and the lyric "and the greatest of teachers won't hesitate to leave you there, by yourself, chained to fate" pertains to the fact that you must investigate and discover spirituality for yourself and not just rely on the "truths" told to you by others such as so-called religious leaders. The lyrics to I Alone always challenged me because they relate in large part to the concept that I just described, but I always thought that the lyrics "I Alone love you" was simply saying that I alone love you -- that is -- I am the only one that loves you. I always viewed that passionately delivered lyric to be a love seronade to someone and it resonated with me as an emotional line that someone would deliver to a girlfriend or something.

Here is a quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti:

"Aloneness Is Not Loneliness

Though we are all human beings, we have built walls between ourselves and our neighbors through nationalism, through race, caste, and class—which again breeds isolation, loneliness.

Now a mind that is caught in loneliness, in this state of isolation, can never possibly understand what religion is. It can believe, it can have certain theories, concepts, formulas, it can try to identify itself with that which it calls God; but religion, it seems to me, has nothing whatsoever to do with any belief, with any priest, with any church or so-called sacred book. The state of the religious mind can be understood only when we begin to understand what beauty is; and the understanding of beauty must be approached through total aloneness. Only when the mind is completely alone can it know what is beauty, and not in any other state.

Aloneness is obviously not isolation, and it is not uniqueness. To be unique is merely to be exceptional in some way, whereas to be completely alone demands extraordinary sensitivity, intelligence, understanding. To be completely alone implies that the mind is free of every kind of influence and is therefore uncontaminated by society; and it must be alone to understand what is religion—which is to find out for oneself whether there is something immortal, beyond time.

The Book of Life - December 2"

And here is another one:
"Only in Aloneness Is There Innocence

Most of us are never alone. You may withdraw into the mountains and live as a recluse, but when you are physically by yourself, you will have with you all your ideas, your experiences, your traditions, your knowledge of what has been. The Christian monk in a monastery cell is not alone; he is with his conceptual Jesus, with his theology, with the beliefs and dogmas of his particular conditioning. Similarly, the sannyasi in India who withdraws from the world and lives in isolation is not alone, for he too lives with his memories.

I am talking of an aloneness in which the mind is totally free from the past, and only such a mind is virtuous, for only in this aloneness is there innocence. Perhaps you will say, "That is too much to ask. One cannot live like that in this chaotic world, where one has to go to the office every day, earn a livelihood, bear children, endure the nagging of one's wife or husband, and all the rest of it." But I think what is being said is directly related to everyday life and action; otherwise, it has no value at all. You see, out of this aloneness comes a virtue which is virile and which brings an extraordinary sense of purity and gentleness. It doesn't matter if one makes mistakes; that is of very little importance. What matters is to have this feeling of being completely alone, uncontaminated, for it is only such a mind that can know or be aware of that which is beyond the word, beyond the name, beyond all the projections of imagination.

The Book of Life - December 4"


In view of the fact that Ed was influence by Krishnamurti at the time, I think the lyric "I Alone" is not about what I used to think it was about at all! If you do a Google search on some of Krishnamurti's writings you will see that the concept of I Alone means to Krishnamurti, as described in the quote above something like this: "To be completely alone implies that the mind is free of every kind of influence and is therefore uncontaminated by society; and it must be alone to understand what is religion—which is to find out for oneself whether there is something immortal, beyond time." One of Krishnamurti's principles is that the only way to reach spiritual liberation and enlightenment is to first free one's self entirely from the thousands of years of bias and belief and ethnocentricity and the dogma of others, etc. Once you are "Alone" without those influences, then you can truly love. Then you can truly find "religion". I Alone doesn't just mean "just me - I'm the one that loves you" or "I'm physically alone". It is much more profound.

In light of that, I think one might hear that song completely differently and read the lyrics in a new light. And it is a million times more powerful than just professing your love for a girl.

[Godiva]

Thank you for the info, fishoutawater. I always figured it was about being skeptical of those in power in religion, but I was unsure of the specific reference. Good stuff to think about.

[teressa]

I grew up "Christian" myself, but one of the things I hate about organized religion is that it's all about converting everyone else to THAT particular belief system, whatever it is.

Ditto. The only difference is that I didn't really grow up "Christian" because we never went to church, but my mom is very traditional. Anyhow, I love how open minded Ed is about different religions and doesn't really single one out. One of my favorite lyrics from SFBM is "Open your heart, you can find your own way, I found they're all the same."

[Godiva]

See I think that is good, no one should put up fences between beliefs and thoughts about religion and such. People should have their opinions but as soon as someone refrains from discussion or thinking they become the people who turn everyone else away from them, as they have chosen ignorance instead of continued insight and glimpses into people outside of themselves.

Indeed. I love Indiana Jones, BTW...