and to burn the crowd that has a name Options

[PillarOfDavidson]

the god described in all versions of the holy bible is sure as shit someone who should be feared. Violent, narcissistic, cruel and indifferent psychopath!

It sure as shit seems like it. But he's also described as merciful, forgiving, just, loving...etc. ??

[dancing queen]

As far as using music goes for filling a hole that a lack of religion in our lives go, how does it work for people who do hold religion close in their lives but may feel just as equally strong about music as us Atheists do?
What I would find interesting too are people who classify themselves as Christians and therefor actually see Ed's lyrics now as "true", but still dislike it ... does that stem from liking the content but not how the content is delivered? You are fine with the message but feel it's delivery is very uncreative/poorly written/lazily written/the way he sings etc..

this is exactly how I feel about Alive. its like something an 8th grader wrote in vacation Bible school. maybe that's too harsh. a 10th grader.

[dancing queen]

the god described in all versions of the holy bible is sure as shit someone who should be feared. Violent, narcissistic, cruel and indifferent psychopath!

I could say the same about my parents (who are kind, loving, certainly have been merciful and caring and generous beyond expectation, and funny and amazing and wonderful people) depending on what period of my life with them I remember.

I have enjoyed this thread immensely thus far. thank you all. I'm sorry I have no rhino to add but its 5am and I'm on my phone.

And World Dreamer, all that you said about Pascal's Wager - yes.

and as far as Catholics go - anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died to save us from our sins is a Christian as far as I can tell, no matter what building they go to to worship. Lots of people like to get territorial and say "well they think they're Christians, but they're not ..." whatever. But people do dumb stuff all the time, so I just keep on keeping on right around all that stupidity.

[Opinechik]

the god described in all versions of the holy bible is sure as shit someone who should be feared. Violent, narcissistic, cruel and indifferent psychopath!

This has always been a contributing factor for my inability to commit to organized religion.
My brain can't reconcile that we are created from ultimate love only then to live our lives fearful that our actions will result in vengeance from the one who created us with such love to begin with.
I don't believe fear was ever meant to be part of God's plan.
Quite honestly, and with no offense intended to anyone, when I meet up with Him, it will be the biggest disappointment of my life if I find He is exactly as portrayed in the Bible.

This post has been edited by Opinechik: Jun 24 2012, 6:42 am

[jayda]

Jayda, are you agnostic or atheist if you don't mind me asking.

atheist (I had to look up agnostic!!!) if I have to label myself. I look at it like a history lesson without the possibility of a higher power.

[jayda]

I thought catholics were a type of christian, like a protestant was a type of christian?

so did I Pokey but they tried to give me a lesson to do with the King George or James bible or some such thing. Went over my head Totally ignorant. Something to do with being saved or not.

[jayda]

the god described in all versions of the holy bible is sure as shit someone who should be feared. Violent, narcissistic, cruel and indifferent psychopath!

You surprise me every time you post Wam....you've read the Bible?????!

[Opinechik]

atheist (I had to look up agnostic!!!) if I have to label myself. I look at it like a history lesson without the possibility of a higher power.

I almost added...or do you not label yourself. =)
Thanks, I find everyone's beliefs interesting.... great thread

[Pokey]

It sure as shit seems like it. But he's also described as merciful, forgiving, just, loving...etc. ??

Yeah to suck ups

[Badman]

as far as Catholics go - anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died to save us from our sins is a Christian

Catholics and protestants are the perfect "portraits of a divided crowd." One accuses the other of not being christian so they will believe they are going to hell and that they are the ones who will go to heaven. Lot of good it gets em...

[Wambangalang]

You surprise me every time you post Wam....you've read the Bible?????!

went to a catholic education type school every saturday from an early age (and church on sundays), where the particulars of the bible were pumped into us. I remember thinking from early on that this god guy sounds so unreasonable, though i admit it was their slant on the teachings that made me resist.

I remember one time asking the nun who was writing something on the board what adultery was, and she dropped her chalk and turned around like she'd seen a ghost and yelled "SEX"!
It was rather amusing. !

[PillarOfDavidson]

went to a catholic education type school every saturday from an early age (and church on sundays), where the particulars of the bible were pumped into us. I remember thinking from early on that this god guy sounds so unreasonable, though i admit it was their slant on the teachings that made me resist.

I remember one time asking the nun who was writing something on the board what adultery was, and she dropped her chalk and turned around like she'd seen a ghost and yelled "SEX"!
It was rather amusing. !

Something I've always wondered about the Catholic religion is why they demand their clergy not have wives. If god intended them not to marry then why did he give them peckers that could get erect? I mean, the bible says that it's better to marry than to burn with lust, which can get twisted in a sex-starved mind. Maybe if they were gettin' it at home they wouldn't be takin' it from little boys in church...

Another thing with the Catholic church I don't understand is that they think you have to go through someone else in order to get god to forgive you your sins. How does a priest, who is no less a sinner than I, have the authority to get me forgiveness?

[Wambangalang]

yes it's all really rather perverted isn't it?

[FishOutaWater]

I think that Catholic doctrine is a vestige of pre-Enlightenment thinking, clinging to the control, misogyny and politics that the church was once able to exploit to keep itself powerful. Sadly, after John Paul II, the church has decided to tack hard even further to the right, and double down on its archaic thinking and ways, claiming to be happy to be a smaller, more orthodox faith. This new Vatican has chosen to abandon all of the progressive steps that the church took since Vatican II and become more exclusive and isolated. It is only a chruch for the narrow minded and ignorant - or the hypocrites, which is more often the case. I can't tell you how many Catholics I know who cling to (and judge others based on) certain beliefs (mainly out of fear) and then sytematically violate the beliefs (like birth control, premarital sex and divorce) that they don't agree with.

By the way - about religion - I don't think that ANY of them are "right". As Lao Tzu said in the very first verse of the Tao Te Ching: "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao". In other words, as soon as you name and describe the eternal "creator" or "Tao" or "God" or whatever you want to call it, you have immediately limted and contracted it. We cannot, as human beings, limited by our intellect and our limited ability to think and perceive get it "right" because as soon as you try to teach God or tell someone about God, you have by definition moved away from God and you have gotten it wrong. Religions are not only based on human's apprehension of the divine, but they are further tainted by passage of traditions over centuries, the cultural, societal, gender, political, economic, agenda, etc. biases of human-kind. Each religion is only that religious tradition's expression of the divine, as shaped by the culture within which the tradition developed, and as further muddled over the passage of centuries. Once people get their hands on religion, it becomes quite un-Godly. I am generally more favorable to religions that advocate direct spiritual experience and have a non-exclusive, "open-architecture" approach to understanding God.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Jun 25 2012, 9:53 am

[PillarOfDavidson]

By the way - about religion - I don't think that ANY of them are "right". As Lao Tzu said in the very first verse of the Tao Te Ching: "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao". In other words, as soon as you name and describe the eternal "creator" or "Tao" or "God" or whatever you want to call it, you have immediately limted and contracted it. We cannot, as human beings, limited by our intellect and our limited ability to think and perceive get it "right" because as soon as you try to teach God or tell someone about God, you have by definition moved away from God and you have gotten it wrong.

Isn't that what you just did though?

I don't know if I can agree with Lao Tzu on this. Isn't declaring that "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" to eternally brand something?

I can't see how naming god (or pointing out god's name, as it were) limits god. If anything it expands our knowledge of god. Think about it this way, if a friend of yours was going to introduce you to this girl you've been wanting to get to know, wouldn't knowing her name increase your knowledge of her? Would it in any way limit what you could know of her?