and to burn the crowd that has a name Options

[Pokey]

I can't speak for other religious people, but I think Christians, in particular, believe that god created music and believe that it's ultimate purpose is to glorify god. Considering things in that light it's pretty easy to see why they'd feel equally strong about music.
Speaking for myself only, I don't see Ed's current lyrics as anything because I don't read them. It's kinda hard to see something you don't first put in front of your eyes.

Well see/hear/listen to, not specifically just reading but I mean I didn't have to read the lyrics to have the opinion that what I heard on Alive sounded like lazy and uncreative writing as far as the lyrics go, and that is content of the lyrics aside. So I was wondering if you'd have people say "yeah I'm all for praising the Lord, but this is not one of the better ways to go about it."

[OutToDry]

No offense!!! Here's your religion!!!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCCssEas6LE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r95a3p8Os-w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIbyxQQgSE

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Jun 23 2012, 4:14 pm

[PillarOfDavidson]

Well see/hear/listen to, not specifically just reading but I mean I didn't have to read the lyrics to have the opinion that what I heard on Alive sounded like lazy and uncreative writing as far as the lyrics go, and that is content of the lyrics aside. So I was wondering if you'd have people say "yeah I'm all for praising the Lord, but this is not one of the better ways to go about it."

It's easy for me to dismiss his music and even be a little too biased at times because I know the "back story" (as much as anyone else here, that is) about what happened between he and CCP. But any real music fan will recognize lazy/unimaginative/uninspired/gimmicky music. Besides there are bands/singers/whatever who've made their lives/living playing and singing their songs. Jars Of Clay, Switchfoot, Delirious?, Downhere, Third Day, Kevin Max, etc. all do that a lot better, IMO, because it's genuine for them. It comes from a real, creative space for them. And really there isn't any difference between any of those bands and Live. They're all bands with songs that ask more questions than they answer. They just maybe ask questions from a somewhat different perspective. Third Day and Delirious are/were (Delirious is disbanded) more worship-oriented, so their music tends to be a little more declarative than inquisitive (more Third Day than the other band) but it's quality stuff. They do what they do very well.

If you want to hear what Ed's solo album should've "sounded like" (so to speak) you should go check out Kevin Max's debut solo album "Stereotype Be". There are a lot of eclectic sounds on that album, kinda similar to what Ed was trying to go after.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03OlWwosWMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gopyRV9_sUU

I have to wonder if OTD is right about this Christian kick being nothing but a gimmick for Ed. Considering Ed's work with Live, back when he was apparently a more authentic human being, if this was genuine for him then the quality of Ed's music and lyrics should be a lot better than they are. But I digress... in attempts to stave off wrecking the direction of this thread.

This post has been edited by PillarOfDavidson: Jun 23 2012, 4:19 pm

[Badman]

I haven't turned into some moral/philosophical relativist where everyone's feet are planted firmly in mid-air.

Ha, that is where I am. I have learned a lot through this thread so far; the board is more religious than I thought.
Still, there aren't many "fundamentalists" out there and I see the general consensus is that there are multiple paths that are equally correct or at least have some redeeming qualities we can gain from.

I am also quite proud of us all for discussing anonymously about religion on the internet and going 4 pages (3 minus the rhinos) without devolving into an argument about religion or mentioning Hitler. Your reward is this image of a rhino with a Hitler mustache:

This post has been edited by Badman: Jun 23 2012, 5:54 pm

[PillarOfDavidson]

Ha, that is where I am. I have learned a lot through this thread so far; the board is more religious than I thought.
Still, there aren't many "fundamentalists" out there and I see the general consensus is that there are multiple paths that are equally correct or at least have some redeeming qualities we can gain from.

I am also quite proud of us all for discussing anonymously about religion on the internet and going 4 pages (3 minus the rhinos) without devolving into an argument about religion or mentioning Hitler. Your reward is this image of a rhino with a Hitler mustache:

haha Alrighty then. I used to be more argumentative about all this stuff, but I guess I'm just getting too old to be too certain. I need to shut up about being "too old" though... I'm only 33.

This post has been edited by PillarOfDavidson: Jun 23 2012, 6:48 pm

[jayda]

So, are Catholics Christians? Doesn't Ed claim to be a Catholic now?

I got booted from a forum that I joined up with when I first got online years ago.....because someone said Catholics aren't Christians. I said hell yes they are.

[Pokey]

So, are Catholics Christians? Doesn't Ed claim to be a Catholic now?

I got booted from a forum that I joined up with when I first got online years ago.....because someone said Catholics aren't Christians. I said hell yes they are.

I thought catholics were a type of christian, like a protestant was a type of christian?

[Pokey]

Badman's gonna be pissed

Oh really?

See, Rhinos = happiness, it doesn't matter what religion we are, we can all enjoy a good Rhino picture.

[OutToDry]

Christianity includes many sects

Roman Catholic
Orthodox Catholic
Protestant
Lutheran
Episocopalean
Latter Day Saint
Jerry Farwell Envelope goes in here...
fill in the blank

[World Dreamer]

What do you think of Pascal's Wager, WD?

A great question and one probably more deserving than the somewhat general answer I am going to give. I could talk about this for pages and pages because it really is a fascinating discussion and can go in many different directions and I'd probably contradict myself over and over on every 3rd page

First things first, Pascal framed this in the context of Christianity. The same "wager" could be used in other religions.

Anyhow, I think that it logically makes incredible sense. I mean, I hate to simplify it but it is basically "better safe than sorry", you know?

If you live like there is a God and there is, you win. If you live like there is a God and there isn't, well worst case you were a good person and probably left the world better than you found it.

The problem with Pascal's Wager is found in the name itself. A "wager". God demands and requires that we fully devote our lives to him. If you aren't 100% then you are completely out. If you are 95% in then you might as well be 0%. The Bible speaks to this issue specifically. So, if you come at Christianity from the angle of "better safe than sorry" then you are doing it out of fear instead of full on trust, faith, surrender, and belief. And I think that matters.

Again, completely simplified answer and if I tried to make it longer I'd probably disagree somehow with parts of what I just said

[Opinechik]

Oh really?


See, Rhinos = happiness, it doesn't matter what religion we are, we can all enjoy a good Rhino picture.

I was happily wrong....

[World Dreamer]

It's easy for me to dismiss his music and even be a little too biased at times because I know the "back story" (as much as anyone else here, that is) about what happened between he and CCP. But any real music fan will recognize lazy/unimaginative/uninspired/gimmicky music. Besides there are bands/singers/whatever who've made their lives/living playing and singing their songs. Jars Of Clay, Switchfoot, Delirious?, Downhere, Third Day, Kevin Max, etc. all do that a lot better, IMO, because it's genuine for them. It comes from a real, creative space for them. And really there isn't any difference between any of those bands and Live. They're all bands with songs that ask more questions than they answer. They just maybe ask questions from a somewhat different perspective. Third Day and Delirious are/were (Delirious is disbanded) more worship-oriented, so their music tends to be a little more declarative than inquisitive (more Third Day than the other band) but it's quality stuff. They do what they do very well.

I have to wonder if OTD is right about this Christian kick being nothing but a gimmick for Ed. Considering Ed's work with Live, back when he was apparently a more authentic human being, if this was genuine for him then the quality of Ed's music and lyrics should be a lot better than they are. But I digress... in attempts to stave off wrecking the direction of this thread.

I agree with all this.

[Opinechik]

I'm a relatively late comer to LIVE as well (although not as late as you Opinechick!). I did know the songs but not who sang them for the longest time (until it was too late really, the crap stuff was well and truly with us). I read nothing into LIVE'S lyrics, did not link any religious stuff into Ed's words even though there was plenty of God stuff in there (I'm like a blinkered horse in many situations) and in fact it was my little kids that pointed out to me that it was 'GOD MUSIC' when they heard it over and over again . Just gave me something to argue with them about. They now roll their eyes and say 'she's got her God music on'. I'm not religious or spiritual AT ALL..

Jayda, are you agnostic or atheist if you don't mind me asking.

[World Dreamer]

Also thank you all for this civil thread. When this type of thread turns to heated debate I tend to ignore it.

This thread has brought me back to a line of thinking that hasn't happened it some time. Hell, the Pascal's Wager talk earlier is a great example. I admit that I knew what it was at one time (fairly well) but I had to go back and research it and think about it once again before I responded. This thread prompted me in that direction.

And I think that (the above paragraph) is initially one of the things that made Live so great. Through the exploration of ideas by Live we each had to begin our own exploration and that allowed us to travel our own road of discovery.

Great stuff.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Jun 23 2012, 9:15 pm

[Wambangalang]

So, if you come at Christianity from the angle of "better safe than sorry" then you are doing it out of fear instead of full on trust, faith, surrender, and belief.

the god described in all versions of the holy bible is sure as shit someone who should be feared. Violent, narcissistic, cruel and indifferent psychopath!