and to burn the crowd that has a name Options

[SctSamadhi]

That is awesome, now we know where things took a turn with the band...

[PillarOfDavidson]

Religion is funny.

If you don't do it exactly like someone else then you are wrong and that applies to the non-religious too.

Everyone is smarter than everyone because no one wants to be wrong about something that is potentially eternal.

According to every religion, every other religion or variation of religion is wrong. You have the "once saved always saved" folks, or the God is wrathful folks, or the God is love folks and blah blah.

According to the non-religious, who "don't want you to push your beliefs on them, man" have no problem pushing thier opposite beliefs on you and making fun of you because religion is your "crutch" and blah blah.

All because they, religious and non, have convinced themselves that they are right because this is the ONE thing that you don't want to be on the wrong side of.

The truth is that the right answer isn't there. No one really knows what is exactly right or if there even is a right answer. So people do what they want and justify to themselves that whatever they are doing is "right".

Am I off-topic?

What do you think of Pascal's Wager, WD?

[Wildman]

To stay on the different topics in this topic, here is a PICTURE of a RHINO with some thoughts I want to share.

[jayda]

I'm a relatively late comer to LIVE as well (although not as late as you Opinechick!). I did know the songs but not who sang them for the longest time (until it was too late really, the crap stuff was well and truly with us). I read nothing into LIVE'S lyrics, did not link any religious stuff into Ed's words even though there was plenty of God stuff in there (I'm like a blinkered horse in many situations) and in fact it was my little kids that pointed out to me that it was 'GOD MUSIC' when they heard it over and over again . Just gave me something to argue with them about. They now roll their eyes and say 'she's got her God music on'. I'm not religious or spiritual AT ALL...I just loved the music, many of the lyrics sounded interesting, some of the lyrics I just pretended weren't as ridiculous as what they were and Ed's voice was quite unique and I loved it.

I'm glad I never saw film clips of the songs until long after I'd fallen in love with the music because I find them a bit off putting - especially Ed's weird antics.

I do have a bit of an attraction or affinity to churches, chapels etc. I think many people do - without necessarily being a religious person. For me I find much beauty in the structure and history of them - whether that be in words or pictures. To hear references to churches, abbeys whatever in the lyrics of quite a few songs does something for me without a religious pull. The same with Ed's considerable use of natures' elements...as much as I like to bag him out for his fondness of rivers.

There are two songs where the lyrics speak to me...I know their meaning to me is not the meaning Ed had in mind when they were written. Overcome in particular I had no idea about the 9/11 connection until some time after it became a poignant attachment to something that happened in my life a bit over 3 years ago. I live in an area of Australia that experienced the worst bushfires in the country's history. It was like I imagined living through war might be. It was hell on earth for a number of days as the death and destruction occurred before our eyes. I saw some horrible, horrible things in those days and Overcome spoke to me. Later I read that Overcome had a similar effect to many dealing with the hell that was 9/11.

[PillarOfDavidson]

I've always believed in Christ, and I've always "subscribed"... side note, I hate the used subscribed to identity oneself as a follower or believer, it's not a magazine... to the idea that there is one correct religion if for no other reason than a logical reason. Sure there are many religions that claim to lay hold to the truth about God, but if any of them are right then how can all of them be right? From my own limited knowledge of these other religions Hindus, for example, believe that there are many gods. Buddhists believe in no gods...

Anyway, the point is that there are fundamental differences/contradictions between all the main religions and they are trivial or meaningless differences concerning the nature of God. If you are a logical person at all you can't legitimately say that they are all equal or even have a legitimate footing in the argument. Either they're all wrong about God or one of them is right. That's what I believe/have believed.

But in the past couple of years I've seen my beliefs really challenged in ways they hadn't been before because of various things that have happened. Things I used to care about I don't give a shit about anymore. And the religious/spiritual beliefs that I've held so tight I just don't hold so tightly anymore. Don't get me wrong, I still believe that there is truth and there is untruth, there are things we should believe and things we should discard. I haven't turned into some moral/philosophical relativist where everyone's feet are planted firmly in mid-air. But it does feel a lot lately like my feet are in the air and my head is under them.

Bottom line is I want the truth, the pure unadulterated/unaltering truth, no matter where or what the fuck it is. I don't want to be full of legalistic bullshit and metaphysical additives. Fuck the fluff. That has always seemed to me to be what Live was all about, at least early on. They were all about finding the truth wherever it is or whatever it is.

This post has been edited by PillarOfDavidson: Jun 23 2012, 11:39 am

[Pokey]

[PillarOfDavidson]

You calling me a rhino?

[OutToDry]

[Opinechik]

Badman's gonna be pissed

[Pokey]

How can he be pissed when there are Rhinos?

[Opinechik]

Maybe I'm mistaken...because everyone knows rhinos make a thread, huh. (read that with the proper facetiousness intended)

This post has been edited by Opinechik: Jun 23 2012, 1:40 pm

[Pokey]

Maybe I'm mistaken...because everyone knows rhinos make a thread, huh. (read that with the proper facetiousness intended)

I don't know about making a thread, but Rhinos just make people happy.

[Opinechik]

Ok, well then, he should be ecstatic eh?

[Pokey]

As far as using music goes for filling a hole that a lack of religion in our lives go, how does it work for people who do hold religion close in their lives but may feel just as equally strong about music as us Atheists do?
What I would find interesting too are people who classify themselves as Christians and therefor actually see Ed's lyrics now as "true", but still dislike it ... does that stem from liking the content but not how the content is delivered? You are fine with the message but feel it's delivery is very uncreative/poorly written/lazily written/the way he sings etc..

[PillarOfDavidson]

As far as using music goes for filling a hole that a lack of religion in our lives go, how does it work for people who do hold religion close in their lives but may feel just as equally strong about music as us Atheists do?

I can't speak for other religious people, but I think Christians, in particular, believe that god created music and believe that it's ultimate purpose is to glorify god. Considering things in that light it's pretty easy to see why they'd feel equally strong about music.

What I would find interesting too are people who classify themselves as Christians and therefor actually see Ed's lyrics now as "true", but still dislike it ... does that stem from liking the content but not how the content is delivered? You are fine with the message but feel it's delivery is very uncreative/poorly written/lazily written/the way he sings etc..

Speaking for myself only, I don't see Ed's current lyrics as anything because I don't read them. It's kinda hard to see something you don't first put in front of your eyes.