"I'm not a christian, but it feels good to be in The Chapel", Ed Kowalczyk Options

[livebat]

I've just listen again all my bootlegs of Live and right now I'm listen "I Alone" for the concert in the Chapel, date: 2000-03-13.

Just want to share, again, like everyone, how much I miss Ed... If this thread is repetitive, it's because all we are concerned in different ways... Like I said: It's not religions fault, but in a way the people who didn't know what to believe, finds the wrong answer on them.

Want my +Live+ back!!!

[OutToDry]

Good stuff there man. At least you'll have your old recordings to commemorate those times. See what the future holds.

[gotigrz]

the thing is, is that ed (from everything i've heard or read) IS a Christian, now. and, when and if someone TRULY becomes a Christian... then they become a different person than what they were.

ed's old lyrics were edgy... full of angst... and, uncertainty. that was because he was mad at the world (much like a lot of '90's rock) and he was out looking for answers to "truth". well, if ed's claim of being a Christian is, in fact, honest truth... then he has found what it is that he's been looking for. the reason ed's voice has changed is cause his soul has changed. what was angst... is now joy.

the thing is, is that in live's old stuff... we all loved their stuff cause you could feel ed pouring his heart and soul out in every lyric. and, if you were not a Christian... you could really connect with what ed was saying. that's why, as a Christian and live fan, i had trouble with connecting w/ ed's lyrics. i LOVED live's "sound", but i had difficulty w/ ed's lyrics. but, now... i believe, ed is, once again, pouring his heart and soul out in his lyrics again... they're just lyrics based on a faith in Christ. and, if you're not a believer in Christ... you won't be able to connect with what ed is saying like you use to.

honestly, i don't dig on ed's new sound... it's a lot more "busy" than what i like, but, i can totally connect with what he's saying. if you're a Christian, then you'd happily replace your "want" for your favorite music with your "want" for someone's salvation. so, with that said... i'm very happy for ed.

i get the sense that many of you hope that live will one day get back together and "start over" in a sense... and start rocking out like the old days.... i can promise you that ain't gonna happen. they may get back together,... but, it'll never be the same. ed cannot be a Christian... and, write and sing songs like the songs of old. why do you think he's changed the lyrics in so many of his old songs? it's not cause he's trying to be cheesy and change the lyric to a happy Christian one... it's cause he has a conflict w/in his soul that wont let him sing those lyrics w/ any meaning.... cause he doesn't mean them, anymore.

as you all know, i am a Christian... and, i physically prayed for the salvation of ed's soul around the time that ed pretty much made it well known that he had found Christ. so, i don't claim to be the reason of ed's salvation... but, i do claim that my prayer was answered. and, i can only pray that anyone here that doesn't know Christ will, someday, get to know Him.

peace.

[PurdueSteve]

the thing is, is that ed (from everything i've heard or read) IS a Christian, now. and, when and if someone TRULY becomes a Christian... then they become a different person than what they were.

ed's old lyrics were edgy... full of angst... and, uncertainty. that was because he was mad at the world (much like a lot of '90's rock) and he was out looking for answers to "truth". well, if ed's claim of being a Christian is, in fact, honest truth... then he has found what it is that he's been looking for. the reason ed's voice has changed is cause his soul has changed. what was angst... is now joy.

the thing is, is that in live's old stuff... we all loved their stuff cause you could feel ed pouring his heart and soul out in every lyric. and, if you were not a Christian... you could really connect with what ed was saying. that's why, as a Christian and live fan, i had trouble with connecting w/ ed's lyrics. i LOVED live's "sound", but i had difficulty w/ ed's lyrics. but, now... i believe, ed is, once again, pouring his heart and soul out in his lyrics again... they're just lyrics based on a faith in Christ. and, if you're not a believer in Christ... you won't be able to connect with what ed is saying like you use to.

honestly, i don't dig on ed's new sound... it's a lot more "busy" than what i like, but, i can totally connect with what he's saying. if you're a Christian, then you'd happily replace your "want" for your favorite music with your "want" for someone's salvation. so, with that said... i'm very happy for ed.

i get the sense that many of you hope that live will one day get back together and "start over" in a sense... and start rocking out like the old days.... i can promise you that ain't gonna happen. they may get back together,... but, it'll never be the same. ed cannot be a Christian... and, write and sing songs like the songs of old. why do you think he's changed the lyrics in so many of his old songs? it's not cause he's trying to be cheesy and change the lyric to a happy Christian one... it's cause he has a conflict w/in his soul that wont let him sing those lyrics w/ any meaning.... cause he doesn't mean them, anymore.

as you all know, i am a Christian... and, i physically prayed for the salvation of ed's soul around the time that ed pretty much made it well known that he had found Christ. so, i don't claim to be the reason of ed's salvation... but, i do claim that my prayer was answered. and, i can only pray that anyone here that doesn't know Christ will, someday, get to know Him.

peace.

Except his Christian self is still singing those songs of old. He has updated some lyrics but many he hasn't updated and contradict his salvation in lord baby jebus.

While I'm sure that you're elated that another soul has found itself with your particular flavor of brainwashing, the rest of us here, who have followed this band realize that Ed's M.O. changes with the seasons. He's a Christian now, but next week he'll be a Buddhist and the week after that he'll be back to talking about fucking on a beach with dolphins. He flip flops more than a politician on the campaign trail.

[deepenoughtodive]

Just because someone has a history of something doesn't mean they will continue it. He was on a search for spirtual truth. As a Christian myself, I don't see him changing his beliefs anytime soon because I believe Christianity is spiritual truth. Why would he change to something else after he's found the truth?

Now if his current beliefs aren't genuine.....yes, he may be onto something else soon.

Either way, he is very young in his Christian faith at this point. Forgiveness and reconciliation are essential and he seems uninterested in either regarding his former bandmates. I hope that changes eventually.

Except his Christian self is still singing those songs of old. He has updated some lyrics but many he hasn't updated and contradict his salvation in lord baby jebus.

While I'm sure that you're elated that another soul has found itself with your particular flavor of brainwashing, the rest of us here, who have followed this band realize that Ed's M.O. changes with the seasons. He's a Christian now, but next week he'll be a Buddhist and the week after that he'll be back to talking about fucking on a beach with dolphins. He flip flops more than a politician on the campaign trail.

This post has been edited by deepenoughtodive: Mar 29 2011, 9:33 am

[PurdueSteve]

Just because someone has a history of something doesn't mean they will continue it. He was on a search for spirtual truth. As a Christian myself, I don't see him changing his beliefs anytime soon because I believe Christianity is spiritual truth. Why would he change to something else after he's found the truth?

Now if his current beliefs aren't genuine.....yes, he may be onto something else soon.

Either way, he is very young in his Christian faith at this point. Forgiveness and reconciliation are essential and he seems uninterested in either regarding his former bandmates. I hope that changes eventually.

You're argument is invalid when you point to something unverifiable and then call it "truth". You Christians make it sound like Ed has been spiritually lost the past 20 years. He hasn't. He just hasn't been aligned with Christianity and to YOU he's been lost.

You can listen to many songs on TDTH that shows how had spiritual footing. He changed when he found that "truth" so I see no reason he wouldn't change from your particular flavor of "truth". Granted his history doesn't mean he will continue to repeat it, but when all evidence is left to be examined, to make a rationale hypothesis, all evidence suggest he will change paths again. I at least have some evidence to back up my speculation, all you Christians have is some predeposed position of Christianity being the one great truth, as if people don't stop believing in Christianity. People do it everyday. It's no more the one spiritual truth than any other religion out there. We're all agnostics/atheists, I just believe in one less God than you.

[deepenoughtodive]

Steve,
I didn't mean to strike a nerve. Yes, I believe Christianity is the truth. I also believe you and everyone else have the right to believe what you want. I should have structured what I said in a different way. It's my opinion that if his faith in Jesus is genuine he won't turn away from it. Your opinion is different from mine and that is ok.

Do people stop believing in Christianity? Definitely. The next question is, did they really believe to begin with? That one I don't know the answer to.

You're argument is invalid when you point to something unverifiable and then call it "truth". You Christians make it sound like Ed has been spiritually lost the past 20 years. He hasn't. He just hasn't been aligned with Christianity and to YOU he's been lost.

You can listen to many songs on TDTH that shows how had spiritual footing. He changed when he found that "truth" so I see no reason he wouldn't change from your particular flavor of "truth". Granted his history doesn't mean he will continue to repeat it, but when all evidence is left to be examined, to make a rationale hypothesis, all evidence suggest he will change paths again. I at least have some evidence to back up my speculation, all you Christians have is some predeposed position of Christianity being the one great truth, as if people don't stop believing in Christianity. People do it everyday. It's no more the one spiritual truth than any other religion out there. We're all agnostics/atheists, I just believe in one less God than you.

[PurdueSteve]

Steve,
I didn't mean to strike a nerve. Yes, I believe Christianity is the truth. I also believe you and everyone else have the right to believe what you want. I should have structured what I said in a different way. It's my opinion that if his faith in Jesus is genuine he won't turn away from it. Your opinion is different from mine and that is ok.

Do people stop believing in Christianity? Definitely. The next question is, did they really believe to begin with? That one I don't know the answer to.

Again the same could be said from his beliefs at any point in time in his career. Ed seems to always have had belief. In his younger years he seemed to have issues with organized religion but he had spiritual beliefs. Were those 20 years of belief non-genuine? Your argument can always be reduced to "Christianity is just, um, somehow different". In reality it's not. There's nothing special about Christianity that makes a genuine believer stick to it anymore so than another belief.

Also, for the section I added in bold, that seems to be more of the Christian logic that is an umbrella catch all.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

It sounds similar to the "Well the Lord works in mysterious ways" retort that follows every basic question like "Why did God let those babies die in the Japanese Earthquake?"

[FishOutaWater]

Gosh, I need to chime in here, but i don't know how I can keep this short.

I'll just say that I think Ed was closer to the "truth" in 1992, when he couldn't find the truth, when he wasn't "certain" of it and realized that you can't search for it as if it lives somewhere, than he is now when he is certain that he has found it. I think that Ed was closer to the truth when he experienced it and realized that conditioning and believe and teachings from leaders corrupt the truth that lies within us and moves us farther from the unadulterated truth. He was closer then than he is now that he has followed a belief system.

At its core principle, I cannot follow a system where prayers for supplication work sometimes but not others. Where is the justice in a system that accepts the premise that God grants some prayers, like praying that your favorite lead singer of a rock band attains salvation or Matt on Survivor praying that he wins his immunity challenges, but not other prayers like "please God save my child from radiation poisoning", on some seemingly arbitrary basis.

I also refuse to believe that the infinite creator of all things has set up a byzantine system for the salvation of every living being to ever walk this earth whereby God decided to reduce itself from the infinite to become a poor Jewish man in the first century Roman empire, allow himself to be subjected to a cruel and merciless crucifiction by Roman soldiers, pop out of the grave 3 days later, and then set up a rule that for thousands of years thereafter, anyone who believes the fact that he did those things will be saved from eternal damnation and everyone who does not will suffer in hell for all of eternity. Why would God do all of that? Why would a God set up such a bizaar set of rules that he would carry out and that everyone must believe happened in order for people to avoid eternal damnation. "Believing in Jesus" as most Christians think of it, means believing that this set of facts about what Jesus did and why he did it are true. In that sense, "believing" is just a neuro-cognative process, a conviction, like believing the world is flat or believing in Santa Clause. It makes no sense on its face for that to be the lynchpin of everyone's salvation or damnation.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Mar 29 2011, 1:07 pm