Does Kowalczyk have an opinion on TGF? Options

[live2cd]

Has he been asked in interviews what he thinks of the record? This all reminds me of 1994 when Mötley Crüe went in a completely different direction with a new singer (altho they kept their name - bad move, IMO) and Vince was asked this all the time and vice versa. The ironic thing was that the 1994 Mötley Crüe record was one of their best. Of course, it didnt sell so they brought Vince back, but thats another thread for a different day.....

Im just waiting for an interview like this..

"So, Ed, what do you think about The Gracious Few? Have you listened to the album?"

This post has been edited by live2cd: Dec 3 2010, 10:43 am

[makemedream]

wow you guys have got some fucked up views of the world....damn when is any issue black and white? never.....the only person who is ever right about everything is my wife

[PurdueSteve]

wow you guys have got some fucked up views of the world....damn when is any issue black and white? never.....the only person who is ever right about everything is my wife

Everything is always black and white.

The belief, despite Ed's lyrics to the "beauty of grey", that things are OK, should and are grey is nothing more than philosophical nonsense.

To hold value in objective or moral greyness is to value the art of compromising with that in which you know to be wrong. If white is good and black is wrong, if you accept grey you're accepting some value of black. You cannot accept some portion of what you know to be wrong. At least you can't while being a rationale human being.

Things are black and white and those with convictions and the balls to realize that are those with a clear head.

[Sakhmet2]

Everything is always black and white.

The belief, despite Ed's lyrics to the "beauty of grey", that things are OK, should and are grey is nothing more than philosophical nonsense.

To hold value in objective or moral greyness is to value the art of compromising with that in which you know to be wrong. If white is good and black is wrong, if you accept grey you're accepting some value of black. You cannot accept some portion of what you know to be wrong. At least you can't while being a rationale human being.

Things are black and white and those with convictions and the balls to realize that are those with a clear head.

And thus started many of the world's most vicious and prolonged conflicts.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Dec 28 2010, 9:17 am

[PurdueSteve]

And thus started many of the world's most vicious and prolonged conflicts.

I disagree. In fact, the world's most vicious and prolonged conflicts seem to stem by the individuals (in power) that believe they can accept some of the black so long as it's for what they feel is the "greater good". This level of compromise with black leads to many deaths, wars and so on.

Hey, the wars in the middle east, for example, aren't a black and white issue. I mean, so what if the civilian casualties and "collateral damage" exceed the deaths of armed combatants. Nothing is black and white and everything is grey. So long as we (our leaders) cower behind that sort of justification it doesn't matter how many kids over the die right? C'mon, I want to hear you say it. It's ok that an Afghani 8 year old dies by American guns because nothing is black and white. I'd argue that it is.

Then there's the whole soviet russia thing.

I could go on and on.

If you reject any impurities of black, in your diet of white, there is no grey and thus you never accept any compromise and wrong-doing. Not that humans are perfect. To make mistakes is one thing. To do wrong and to justify wrong-doing by hiding behind the "Things aren't black and white" excuse is philosophical and moral bankruptcy.

I know it's a tough thing to admit.

[Sakhmet2]

Hey, the wars in the middle east, for example, aren't a black and white issue. I mean, so what if the civilian casualties and "collateral damage" exceed the deaths of armed combatants. Nothing is black and white and everything is grey. So long as we (our leaders) cower behind that sort of justification it doesn't matter how many kids over the die right? C'mon, I want to hear you say it. It's ok that an Afghani 8 year old dies by American guns because nothing is black and white. I'd argue that it is.

I originally said in my first reply that some things are black and white, this kind of thing being one of them, but edited it out.

I think this example doesn't belong in this argument, because all moral human beings acknowledge a code of good and evil.

Saying that there are shades of grey actually means something different. At least to me. To me it means that there are degrees of evil/wrong.

This post has been edited by Sakhmet2: Dec 28 2010, 11:00 am

[PurdueSteve]

I originally said in my first reply that some things are black and white, this kind of thing being one of them, but edited it out.

I think this example doesn't belong in this argument, because all moral human beings acknowledge a code of good and evil.

Saying that there are shades of grey actually means something different. At least to me. To me it means that there are degrees of evil/wrong.

Well, I'm not convinced that makes a lot of sense, because wrong is still wrong. Of course stealing a pie and murdering a baby are very different degrees of wrong, but both are still wrong and are still "black". There is no "white" or good in stealing. You can try justify it. Maybe it's to to feed a starving person, but the act itself is still wrong. Stealing doesn't suddenly become a virtue or a positive because of the reasoning behind it.

In the case of EdK. If he did what he did, and I consider it unlikely that the other 3 guys would be working together in some sort of secret conspiracy, then Ed is just flat out in the wrong. There is no "grey". There is no justification. You can't rationally defend it. All you can say, as a fan is that you'll continue to listen to his art or you won't, and you can say that maybe we don't know the whole story. You can't defend his actions or hide behind a shallow "everything is black and white" hogwash

[Sakhmet2]

Of course stealing a pie and murdering a baby are very different degrees of wrong,

Well no shit man!
As long as human society has existed in any form, there has been a realization that not all forms of wrongdoing are created equal.

All you can say, as a fan is that you'll continue to listen to his art or you won't, and you can say that maybe we don't know the whole story.

And I will.

You can't defend his actions or hide behind a shallow "everything is black and white" hogwash

I think you might want to re-read this because you just wrote the opposite of what I think you meant to write.

[PurdueSteve]

I think you might want to re-read this because you just wrote the opposite of what I think you meant to write.

Should've read:

You can't defend his actions or hide behind a shallow "everything isn't black and white" hogwash.

Typo!

This post has been edited by PurdueSteve: Dec 30 2010, 6:49 am

[LiveRoCkS77]

Should've read:

You can't defend his actions or hide behind a shallow "everything isn't black and white" hogwash.

Typo!

Dude, don't bother to even try to explain anything to these Ed fanboys. They'll defend him even if its proven he stole from his friends. That's just the way some people are. They're not men enough to admit to some things. They'll continually try and justify in every way they can, in order to make themselves believe, and feel better, about being such a complete idiot themselves.

Throw whatever kind of sauce of fucking gravy on it you want. A thief is a thief, just as Steve said. Justify it any way you want in order to make yourselves feel better. If it makes you more comfortable looking in the mirror??? Good for you!!!

Deep down, I think most of these people understand the difference, they just aren't men enough to admit it, so they hide behind veils of thinly disguised justifications that actually make not a dime of fucking sense to a mature individual who can own up to his own shortcomings.

Let the Ed zombies follow along and continue to justify their own nonsensical bullshit. They aren't men, they're children who won't ever accept responsibility for themselves. Good luck with that!

[Pokey]

Throw whatever kind of sauce of fucking gravy on it you want. A thief is a thief, just as Steve said. Justify it any way you want in order to make yourselves feel better. If it makes you more comfortable looking in the mirror??? Good for you!!!

This is an interesting one when applied to Ed himself. The one thing that stood out for me in that interview Ed did where the dutch guy went in with the hard questions asking about the secret contracts and the lead singer bonus.
Ed's reply was that it was a mischaracterisation ... rather than saying "no that's not true", or "no it's a misunderstanding, what actually happened was..."
He seemed to be defending or justifying as a "mischaracterisation" as if to say "oh yeah I totally did ask for more money than all the other guys to perform and I did sign a secret contract, but I did it for good reasons like to pay for solo album recording costs ". Which I think was what he was hinting at in the interview.
misunderstanding would lead me to believe that factually there is more to the story than what we know and that maybe Ed has a side where he could be in the right,or at least not in the wrong for hurting friends.
Mischaracterisation just makes it sound like what CCP said was true, but because Ed didn't do it out of spite or money to go buy a new car with, that it makes it all OK.

That's sort of off the topic of the thread, but what you said there just reminded me of it. I just thought it was telling that Ed chose that word to defend himself with (and used it a few times too).

Back to the actual topic. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Ed hadn't even heard TGF, he seems that self absorbed and into his own thing that blocking it out completely wouldn't seem too far. I mean he seems to refuse to even acknowledge their existence or be able to mention any of the guys by name in interviews, so who knows.

If he has heard it, who knows if he likes it. If he truely likes the sort of music that he is producing then maybe he won't like TGF. But then again there are people on this board here who genuinely like both Ed and TGF, so hard to say. Either way, if you ask him, he won't give you an answer other than something about focusing on his solo stuff. I'd respect him more if he just came out and said "oh yeah I heard it, it's not really my thing, it's a good example of how the other guys wanted to take the music one way and I wanted to take it another".