gotigrz's Christianity topic, part 2 Options

[gotigrz]

Someone i think badman or merica actually asked ed in person and he admitted being a christian. im pretty sure his is a little more of an open faith (i remember a recent interview where he stated that praying doesnt do much good in the world) I know he thinks the bible is the best source of morality and guide for mankind but im not clear if he believes in the divinity of jesus or that he was born of a virgin etc...

well, if ed said that he was a Christian, then he does believe in the virgin birth, the dying on the cross, and the resurrection 3 days later. that is the criteria of being a Christian. nobody says, .. "yeah, i'm a Christian, but that whole virgin birth thing is just crazy."

when ed said that about prayer not doing much good (i heard the interview)... he was referring to prayer that he thinks isn't really "prayer". he was saying that when you are truly in prayer with God that you are like one with Him, and that most people just close their eyes and ask for something. and, that THAT isn't doing much good cause that's what most people do and look at the world around us. PRAYER... aka... truly talking to God is VERY powerful.

[gotigrz]

thanks for the reply, fish... but, no, i don't deny the jewish form of God. they believe in the same God that we do, but we refer to Him as God the Father.



You say that "the only way for us to be forgiven is for one of us to give up their life in perfect form". Is God bound by some strange, arcane rules involving human blood sacrifice in order to be able to forgive sins?

all i can say to that is that God is the same God that has always been.. he is unchanging. He doesn't adapt to our ways. what may seem old fashioned to us, will always be the same to God is timeless.

Didn't he have the power to forgive sins without the sacrifice of a perfect, sinless human being who happens to be himself? Really? What about God's ability to forgive sins before Jesus - like on Yom Kipur? Who set up these rules of engagement for God? God himself? Why would he subject himself or us to these strange rules so that sins can be forgiven? It really doesn't make any sense at all. In fact, it seems silly. It probably made theological sense 2,000 years ago when people made animal sacrifices in the temple as offerings to God, but today it's hard to believe that God required the substituionary blood sacrifice of a perfect human so that he could forgive sins and so that people could be with him after they die.

well, like i said before, i believe that God is timeless, so what seems "silly" to us, today, is still as relevant today as it was 2,000 yrs ago to God. but, let me ask you a question: if it seems "silly" today for that to be the requirement to forgive sins,... what do you think would be acceptable or appropriate as a requirement to get to Heaven?

I believe that Jesus lived, taught and was crucified and most likely appeared to his followers in some way after he died. And his followers tried to make some theological meaning out of the violent death of their spiritual leader. And later, the Church wrapped these stories in theology and doctrines and liturgy.

i can see how you might believe that IF Jesus didn't say that He was going to be raised 3 days after His death. Jesus told His followers exactly what was gonna happen before He was crucified... and, according to eye witnesses... all of what Jesus said was going to happen... HAPPENED. so, when Jesus said that He is the Son of Man, and that He would die for our sins and only through Him can one be saved... why would someone believe some of that and not all of it? it makes more sense to believe none of it, to me, than to pick and choose parts to believe.


Do you accept the Jewish aspect of God?

i accept the Jewish aspect of God as God the Father

Did you celebrate Passover last night, like Jesus did every year of his life, including the night before he died?

yes, i do celebrate the passover

Do you honor the sabath on Saturday and follow the Jewish dietary laws like Jesus and all of his desciples did throughout their lives?

well, i honor the sabbath on Sunday. and, no i don't follow the jewish dietary laws... for one, i'm not jewish, and two, i think "believing" in Jesus and who He is and following His ways of treating others and loving His Father is what Jesus cared about.

Why did Jesus feel the need to be a good Jew? It was central to his spirituality. Don't good Christians feel the need to practice the central and defining practices of Jesus' own spirituality?

well, i believe we do. i believe every Christian and Jew, alike, should practice exactly what Jesus taught.


Indeed, the aposltes who followed Jesus throughout his entire public ministry (notably James and Peter) believed after Jesus dies that a person had to convert to Judaism if they weren't already Jewish in order to follow the ways of Jesus. Peter wouldn't sit with unclean people eating unkosher food and James yelled at Peter for doing so after he was convinced to by Paul. That's right in the bible. Don't you think that the apostles who knew Jesus best understood what it meant to follow Jesus's ways? They thought you needed to be Jewish.

fish, i'm not doubting you, but i need to see this in the bible... that the followers of Jesus thought you should be Jewish. please give me a verse of scripture if you don't mind.


But again, do you think you are not going to be saved because you accept the Jesus form of God but you deny the Jewish form of God?

like i said... Christians don't deny the jewish form of God, Jehovah... Christians believe in the Trinity.. God the Father(Jehovah), God the Son(Jesus), and the Holy Spirit(God's spirit inside you). the only ones denying any part of God is the Jews denying Jesus as God's Son.

I'm not trying to belittle any elses beliefs. I just think that if you stop and stand back and look at this stuff, it is really hard to reconcile and understand.

it is very hard to understand,... but, only if you make it hard. Believing Jesus is who He says He is and believing He did what He and others say He did, and believing Jesus when He said that "no one comes to the Father but through Me"... isn't hard to understand. it is strict... but, fair.

oh, and sorry,.. my little quote button didn't work for me...

This post has been edited by gotigrz: Mar 31 2010, 8:40 am