gotigrz's Christianity topic, part 2 Options

[gotigrz]

Someone i think badman or merica actually asked ed in person and he admitted being a christian. im pretty sure his is a little more of an open faith (i remember a recent interview where he stated that praying doesnt do much good in the world) I know he thinks the bible is the best source of morality and guide for mankind but im not clear if he believes in the divinity of jesus or that he was born of a virgin etc...

well, if ed said that he was a Christian, then he does believe in the virgin birth, the dying on the cross, and the resurrection 3 days later. that is the criteria of being a Christian. nobody says, .. "yeah, i'm a Christian, but that whole virgin birth thing is just crazy."

when ed said that about prayer not doing much good (i heard the interview)... he was referring to prayer that he thinks isn't really "prayer". he was saying that when you are truly in prayer with God that you are like one with Him, and that most people just close their eyes and ask for something. and, that THAT isn't doing much good cause that's what most people do and look at the world around us. PRAYER... aka... truly talking to God is VERY powerful.

[gotigrz]

Belief-oriented Christianity has emphasized the idea that if a person believes a certain set of facts about events that occurred 2,000 years ago are true, then you go to heaven and if you don't, you go to hell

well, this isn't 100% accurate... you're not saved by "faith" alone... you have to live the life that true "faith" would have you live. just saying "i believe" isn't true belief. true belief and life that follows Christ goes hand in hand. a true Christian, imho, doesn't think to himself... "well, i believe in Jesus, so that means that i can do whatever i want and suffer no consequences"

Why would God set up such an arbitrary system that has such high stakes?

well, if you really believe in God then you know that us humans are the ones that made the "system" arbitrary on ourselves. it's like the kid that gets in trouble for talking in school... he may get mad that he gets in trouble for doing something that is so natural to humans... but, he still disobeyed the teacher and therefore will suffer punishment. a true arbitrary system would be for the kid to get in trouble w/o the teacher first telling him not to talk.

i find it hard to believe that anyone thinks they can live their life without an eternal or ultimate reward or punishment when all they've done their entire life is live a life of reward or punishment.... aka... choices or actions and consequences.

Why would God need to make himself into his only son, and then suffer torture and resurrection and then test whether people believe that happened for the next 2,000 years in order for sins to be forgiven and in order to attain salvation?

well, i believe that in order to be with God you have to be like God and you have to be sinless or at least forgiven for your sins. if there was no need for forgiveness of sins to be with God then God's law is no longer "law"... cause without punishment... what good is "law"? and, the only way for us to be forgiven is for one of us to give up their life in perfect form... w/o sin... and the only One who could do such a thing is God, himself. and, since He does love and care for His creation... He did just that by sending Himself through Jesus to be one of us and to live the perfect life and be whipped, speared, and nailed to a cross to die so that all of human sin would be atoned for.

and as far as "test whether people believe that happened for the next 2,000 years in order for sins to be forgiven"... it's not a test... it's a simple requirement. your sins are not forgive BECAUSE you believe... your sins are forgiven regardless... but, you have to accept the gift of forgiveness before everything is complete. if a man does you wrong and you forgive him and he says he doesn't want your forgiveness... then there is always gonna be "that" between you two. if you never accept God's gift of forgiveness then you'll always be separated from God because of that.

why would anyone care whether the Jew accepts the Jesus aspect of God

cause they're denying a part of Him. they're accepting God in one form but not another... meaning.. they're not accepting all of Him. if your son is gay and you don't approve, and you say.. "i love you, son, but i hate the gay thing"... well, then your son is gonna believe that you don't love him cause the "gay thing" isn't some meaningless thing about him such as his clothes or the music he likes... it is part of him...it's who he is. if Jesus is God, then you can't accept one w/o the other...

Why would God care how you get there if it all leads to the same place?

like i said.. i believe that it matters cause you're denying a part of God and what He said He would do for mankind and what He did for mankind.

But when it is 2 Christian sects fighting, it could be viewed as 2 children .. brothers, fighting over who loves the Dad more. Surely Dad/God would step in and stop that out of love? It doesn't have to do with free will because neither is choosing to believe in different God or no God at all..

i see your point, but they're not fighting over who loves the Dad the most... they're fighting over "stuff" that isn't even important. the original Church of Christ was far more simple than todays churches because we have changed them to fit our needs in what we think the "right" church should be.. but, the "stuff" that we change is to suit our needs instead of what God really wants. and, like it or not, God allows this for the same reason He allows all "wrongs" in this world... free will. free will is seen by non believers as an easy way out of a sticky situation. but, free will is either that or it's the divine will of God... it's up to you what you believe. but, if you choose to believe that free will isn't what God said.. then you're denying the fact that you can choose differently than someone like me.

This post has been edited by gotigrz: Mar 29 2010, 9:39 am