Length/Quality of Songs - for the older fans Options

[disciple_de_+LIVE+]

Hey all - newcomer to the board. Been a Live fan since Mental Jewelry - heard Waterboy on a mix tape and went out and bought MJ and TC that same day.............

Just reading through a lot of threads here, I can tell a lot of older live fans have the same issues with their new material as I do. Obviously bands evolve and they lose the desperation/angst/intensity in their albums. I see that happening with almost every band I like.

But with Live (and maybe I am too critical because they are my favorite band) I feel like they have been just writing songs to fill an album. I recently read an interview in which Ed said something like he would prefer to just release music as singles or EPs rather than full length albums. I think that V, Birds of Pray, and Black Mountain all features songs that were created as fillers for the album. I have a couple reasons to think this:

1.) There are numerous songs on those albums that they have never played in concert. If you were proud of these songs, wouldn't you get them in the mix at least once to see how they are received?

2.) a lot of these songs are between 3 - 4 minutes in length. Seems that they are sticking to a certain formula and just chunking out songs. Whatever happened to the 6 and 7 min epic songs that really defined their early career? PoD, WD, Ghost, GHMO. I would love to hear a 10 min studio song where they jam out with tons of verses and solos and general craziness. Anyone who has seen the band knows how hard they rock and these short songs on the end of their new albums don't do that any justice

Here are the songs I consider filler on those albums:

V - Flow, The Ride, OK

BoP - Rivertown, Out To Dry, Bring the People Together

Black Mountain - Home, All I Need, You Are Not Alone

Obviously some of you will like these songs I mentioned, and to each his/her own. But for me those songs are listenable but seem like B-sides more than anything else. Anybody out there feel the same?

I hate for my first post to be so critical, but I think its good discussion material...

[+Ed+]

That is a nice thing to discuss. Well done and welcome aboard.

I was definitely first of all interested in the mixtape you mentioned You still have it? What is the name of it? Could you please be more specific?

On topic. You know, the majority of the bands lately (and I consider 'lately' to start with 1999-2000 really) do not bother that much about the length. I mean, not really 'not bother' but they tend to somehow preliminary make them radio-friendly. Let me clarify from the very start, I am a big fan of everything Live have released you know. Anyway I still feel that it is not the length of the song that matters. For example (bad example though) the best songs by The Offspring (and once again I clarify that I mean their 'Ignition' and judge mostly by the texts) can be not longer than 2 minutes. On the other hand we all are aware of the band baring the name The Mars Volta, who have epic tracks longer than 10 minutes. Anyway, none of those formulars work nowadays.

I sincerely love Live with all my heart and whatever you name it, be it soul or be it taste.... I do think that there will hardly be any epics like PoD and W,D. The present audience (majority of course) does not really need them. I can predict reading blaming replies to this like... c'mon, we are the majority and we are not happy... But fellas. Let us face the truth. Ed really is sincere, as I sense it. Now he feels like writing the songs that we all get lately. Anyway, Live will hardly ever be back to smash the charts... It is really sad, but I can not feel anything of modern stuff to be spinned on the radio along with nice Live tunes. They make quite poppy songs that do not become popular! Ain't it an interesting thing? I bet it is. Anyhow, it gets me offtopic.

The stuff that orked 10-15 years ago will not work and will leave the band with less money. That means they can easier stop functioning. Is it a way out? Hardly. But I do not think that length is what matters.

Sorry, if it is too long, end of workday here, I am getting tired

When a band does this, it generally puts the majority of the audience to sleep. I'm glad refrains from that practice.

A VERY strange statement.


PS ohohoh sorry forgot to add one more thing. Pokes, I do not know which bands you mean. I unfortunately can only judge by one band from overseas that I saw on stage, meaning Depeche Mode, who are really huge (maybe even bigger than the Beatles in Russia) here. Saw them twice in 2001 and 2006. Both times they played around 4-6 songs off the new records.

This post has been edited by +Ed+: May 13 2008, 9:19 am

[disciple_de_+LIVE+]

I was definitely first of all interested in the mixtape you mentioned You still have it? What is the name of it? Could you please be more specific?

It was a mix that a friend made for me. I prolly have it but it was basically Death of a dictionary, waterboy, and the REM Monster album. Nothing on there that you don't have already.....funny thing was that my friend was not a big live fan so there is no explanation why he had a copy of DOAD...just a music freak

On topic. You know, the majority of the bands lately (and I consider 'lately' to start with 1999-2000 really) do not bother that much about the length. I mean, not really 'not bother' but they tend to somehow preliminary make them radio-friendly. Let me clarify from the very start, I am a big fan of everything Live have released you know. Anyway I still feel that it is not the length of the song that matters. For example (bad example though) the best songs by The Offspring (and once again I clarify that I mean their 'Ignition' and judge mostly by the texts) can be not longer than 2 minutes. On the other hand we all are aware of the band baring the name The Mars Volta, who have epic tracks longer than 10 minutes. Anyway, none of those formulars work nowadays.

I agree that song length doesn't dictate quality or really anything. But for instance when I got Black Mountain and looked at the track lengths, EVERY SINGLE ONE was below 4 min. it just seemed too standard and radio friendly. And for a band who no longer enjoys the mainstream success that they once did, i would think they would not adhere to any industry norms when it comes to songs.