Long time listener, first time caller, SFBM, Live & evolution Options

[pizan0]

Hey all,

I don't post here much, but I've been reading all of the posts lately regarding the new album and Live's sound. I thought I'd share my 2 cents.

To be objective is almost impossible, especially for a follower of a band that I've literally grown up with (their music is the soundtrack of my life). For this reason, its hard for us to objectively judge their music. But in a very strange way, we are the best critiques of Live's music because we know them so well. How can someone who never gives Live a read chance, be a good judge of their music? For that, I say, fuck all of the big name reviews you see.

I was watching a video from back in early 1994 when Live played in Sao Paolo, Brazil. They were terribly young, but there was such a raw energy coming from their hearts, it was impossible not to notice this band. They fuckin' kicked ass; as simple as their music was, it was so powerful. There was a "raw" nature about Ed's voice. It was deeper, had more grit, and cut through you like the sharpest knife. God, I miss that sound of Live...I can't deny that I do.

As Live evolved, and as their music evolved, its evident that things have changed from those early days. They're more refined, more talented musically, and perhaps they no longer have to prove anything to anyone. Up until TDTH, Live, to me, was nothing short of ground-breaking and inspirational. Those 1st 4 albums...jesus, man, they constantly play in my head...non-stop. They are a part of who I am. It was at V that I got worried. Truthfully, save about 3 songs off that album...the rest was pure garbage in my opinion. Live's sound (mainly the lyrics, to be honest) became overly produced, almost forced, and plain corny.

That didn't stop me from listening to Live all the time. I took the album for what it was, dissected it, took from it what I enjoyed and what was the essence of Live, and I moved on, waiting for more. Then, BOP: At this point, I was one of the only people I knew still listening to Live. Is this Live's best album? No. But it had sparks of genius that reaffirmed for me that this band was right for me. For those of you that don't agree, take one good listen to "Lighthouse" and you'll know what I mean. After V, I was weary, but that song alone made me realize that this band makes me feel emotions inside that I can't describe...that no other music does. No other band can make a rock song like that...period.

Its obvious that Live's gradual move towards a more laid-back, poppier sound is going to be even more pronounced in SFBM. But god damn, even if it sounds a bit poppier than what I usually listen to, no one else in music does it like Live. They just have a "sound" that can't be understood fully...you just feel it. Again, if you don't believe me, take a listen to the pre-chorus in "mystery," when ed sings, "oh, how it deepens"....that is Live. That pre-chorus is Live; that sound is the sound of the band that still inspires me to this day - they aren't afraid to talk about seemingly "corny" topics like love, they are positive, spiritual, and deep. (even if the lyrics don't seem that way sometimes) If that doesn't make sense to you, then perhaps Live is not the band that plays in your soul.

Do I think SFBM will be Live's best album? No, throwing copper is #1 for me. But do I think that I'd rather listen to anything Live puts out over 98% of the music out there? Yes, almost always. Because I have evolved and grown to love their change of sound, and I appreciate it for what it is. We'll never get another Throwing Copper - that was a stepping stone for 4 young guys; that's what came out of them in 1994....SFBM is from the same guys 12 years later. And somehow, they still find a way to blow my mind album after album...even if its just a few songs....

Sorry for the long post, kids. I needed to get that out. Enjoy the music.

[LiveRoCkS77]

Personally, I don't see how TDTH is so much more creative. It's all pretty simple and straightforward if you ask me.

But I agree with most of the points you make. But I'm not sitting around and talking about what the band is doing in a positive light nor did I say that the line you mentioned was stimulating to me.

But maybe what you get out of that line isn't necessarily what somebody else might get. It may seem simple and contrived to you and I can't blame you for feeling that way. But unlike the hundreds of pop artists who've written similar lines, I doubt it was meant in the same context. I doubt if it came straight from the heart with a lot of them. But I believe it does with Kowalcyzk, as simple and uncreative as it is.

Also, FYI, I wasn't necessarily speaking about you in my reference although you have been guilty of it in the past. You have to admit that there are a lot of people running around saying shit like "I'm tired of hearing about Ed writing about his daughters, what's next" or "that shit sucks" and things of that sort. Those people are the target of my flame, sorry if you felt that included you.

Although I'm not happy myself with what I've heard lately, I'm not going to sit back and be blatantly critical and rude, out of respect for this band. I don't accept it as creative or exceptionally artistic neither. But I respect it as something that is close to the heart of a musician I love, however simple and uncreative it may be.

I think you young folk just want things your way and don't have much respect for the way other people think and for where they are in life. You make a lame argument about how you don't mind the content and all that, it's the creativity that matters. I don't think creativity matters in the mind of an artist so much when things have become clear and simple to him or her.

I've heard you specifically complain about the content of lots of songs. You just can't admit when you're wrong nor do you ever fail to find new and feeble ways to achieve some form of self justification.

[Pokey]

But maybe what you get out of that line isn't necessarily what somebody else might get. It may seem simple and contrived to you and I can't blame you for feeling that way. But unlike the hundreds of pop artists who've written similar lines, I doubt it was meant in the same context. I doubt if it came straight from the heart with a lot of them. But I believe it does with Kowalcyzk, as simple and uncreative as it is.

What makes you think it has to come from the heart of Kowalczyk (not that I'm saying it doesn't) and not some other pop artists? Is it just because YOU like Live?
Regardless of it coming straight from the heart or not, the fact is the lyrics, the music everything is just utterly uncreative to the bone and like most pop songs probably has a shelf life of about 6 months.

Although I'm not happy myself with what I've heard lately, I'm not going to sit back and be blatantly critical and rude, out of respect for this band. I don't accept it as creative or exceptionally artistic neither. But I respect it as something that is close to the heart of a musician I love, however simple and uncreative it may be.

So is this just liking it for the sake of liking it? Liking it because it's Live? If you don't like it, but you respect it then does this mean you have to respect pretty much every single song ever in the history if music? Because you don't really have any way of being able to tell if an artist is being genuine so should you just respect it all?
But if you look at it that way, fine I to respect it that it's close to the heart of the musician I love, however I don't respect the complete and utter lack of creativity in it .. the two for me are a vital element in music .. I don't want to listen to some souless rubbish that the singing doesn't really believe 100%, nor do I wish to listen to a band on auto-pilot that aren't really putting any effort into their work. What I love about Live's earlier work is that it does combine those two elements.

I think you young folk just want things your way and don't have much respect for the way other people think and for where they are in life. You make a lame argument about how you don't mind the content and all that, it's the creativity that matters. I don't think creativity matters in the mind of an artist so much when things have become clear and simple to him or her.

Well you think wrong. Don't turn this into a "you young whipper-snappers!" type thing because age has nothing to do with it. Creativity doesn't matter? Ok lets try this as an example.
Let's say you work for an advertising company, there is a product that you really really believe in you want to let the world know how fantastic it is and that they all should have it .. do you just get a big sheet of paper and draw a picture of said product on it and say "get this" or do you put some effort into it to really showcase how amazing it is, try to make it stand out from the rest and have a long lasting effect. THAT is why creativity is important. Without it, it just because lost in the crowd which is what Live is sounding like .. no different from all the other stuff on the radio now .. once upon a time they stood right out and the sad part is that inside them still they should have the ability to still do that, but they're not. They seem to be taking the easy way, write simple as hell pop songs and let the record company do all the work pushing them rather than letting the music speak for itself.

[mrmcpheezy]

What makes you think it has to come from the heart of Kowalczyk (not that I'm saying it doesn't) and not some other pop artists? Is it just because YOU like Live?
Regardless of it coming straight from the heart or not, the fact is the lyrics, the music everything is just utterly uncreative to the bone and like most pop songs probably has a shelf life of about 6 months.
So is this just liking it for the sake of liking it? Liking it because it's Live? If you don't like it, but you respect it then does this mean you have to respect pretty much every single song ever in the history if music? Because you don't really have any way of being able to tell if an artist is being genuine so should you just respect it all?
But if you look at it that way, fine I to respect it that it's close to the heart of the musician I love, however I don't respect the complete and utter lack of creativity in it .. the two for me are a vital element in music .. I don't want to listen to some souless rubbish that the singing doesn't really believe 100%, nor do I wish to listen to a band on auto-pilot that aren't really putting any effort into their work. What I love about Live's earlier work is that it does combine those two elements.
Well you think wrong. Don't turn this into a "you young whipper-snappers!" type thing because age has nothing to do with it. Creativity doesn't matter? Ok lets try this as an example.
Let's say you work for an advertising company, there is a product that you really really believe in you want to let the world know how fantastic it is and that they all should have it .. do you just get a big sheet of paper and draw a picture of said product on it and say "get this" or do you put some effort into it to really showcase how amazing it is, try to make it stand out from the rest and have a long lasting effect. THAT is why creativity is important. Without it, it just because lost in the crowd which is what Live is sounding like .. no different from all the other stuff on the radio now .. once upon a time they stood right out and the sad part is that inside them still they should have the ability to still do that, but they're not. They seem to be taking the easy way, write simple as hell pop songs and let the record company do all the work pushing them rather than letting the music speak for itself.

MAN NO ONE LIKES YOU GO AWAY ALREADY YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T LOVE LIVE MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD WHY DO YOU ALWAYS MAKE FUN OF EVERYONE GO AWAY AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Pokey]

MAN NO ONE LIKES YOU GO AWAY ALREADY YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU DON'T LOVE LIVE MORE THAN ANYTHING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD WHY DO YOU ALWAYS MAKE FUN OF EVERYONE GO AWAY AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

STOP FILLING ALL YOUR POSTS WITH VULGAR STATEMENTS, I'M SICK TO DEATH OF SEEING EVERY SECOND WORD YOU TYPE BEING "FUCK" WHAT HAPPENS IF THE CHILDREN GET ONTO THIS BOARD WHILST THEY ARE SEARCHING FOR PORN ON THE INTERNET??

This post has been edited by Pokey: Mar 6 2006, 12:13 pm