The River, A Positive Board for Those Who Love The Song Options

[Hoodstock]

I will not respond to any negative responses about this song. I am looking to discuss it with people who like it!

For some reason The River has been bashed repeatedly on this board. I wanted to make a forum for those that love the song to talk about it without worrying what everyone else thinks. I have had a chance to obsorb SFBM for a while now and there are three songs that stand out to me. Mystery, Love Shines, and The River.

I think that The River is a great song. In fact, it may be my favorite on the album. Despite what others think, I enjoy the melody, I think the hook is catch, and I think it is a fun song to listen too.

I wanted to hear what other lovers of this song think.

[Ed's Goddess]

"Her kiss makes me tremble
so she pulls me close and she holds me oh so tight
Then suddenly out of the blue she starts singing
Ooo baby let my loving ease your pain"

[mrmcpheezy]

"Her kiss makes me tremble
so she pulls me close and she holds me oh so tight
Then suddenly out of the blue she starts singing
Ooo baby let my loving ease your pain"

God fucking dammit. Do you seriously think these lyrics are creative/interesting/innovative/anything? What the fuck are you doing, listening to such genric bullshit? Don't you realize there are a thousand other bands singing about the exact same thing in the exact same way? I don't understand how you can rank live above bands doing the exact same thing as them. What the fuck is going on inside your head that makes you think these lyrics are in anyway special or unique?

Goddammit.

[Soxwsc]

God fucking dammit. Do you seriously think these lyrics are creative/interesting/innovative/anything? What the fuck are you doing, listening to such genric bullshit? Don't you realize there are a thousand other bands singing about the exact same thing in the exact same way? I don't understand how you can rank live above bands doing the exact same thing as them. What the fuck is going on inside your head that makes you think these lyrics are in anyway special or unique?

Goddammit.

I do! I love this song, I still listen to it every time I get in the car. Haven't gotten sick of it yet.
Ed didn't steal the lyrics from anyone else; they're unique.. don't hear many metaphoric lyics these days.. the melody is totally unique and doesn't sound like anything they'd done before. I honestly can't name more than 3 Live songs that sound simliar to another one, which I can't say about too many other bands with over 100 songs in their catalog.

The River is a fun song to listen to. I'm past the age of caring what the freak or frat boy next to me thinks. It may be cheesy, but if I like it, why not enjoy it. And I like the lyrics too. Personally, I can relate to the lyrics since one of my hobbies is hiking, particularly in the mountains of Sedona. After a long day of hiking, I'm hot, exhausted, thirsty, and out of nowhere I see a flowing refreshing river, just lying there all naked on the floor, then I proceed to get a handful of the pure cold water, splash it on my face, making my lips tremble. Nothing like a refreshing pool of water from a flowing river in the mountains of Sedona. Maybe I'm just a hippie, but I love this song; it's brilliant!

[mrmcpheezy]

I do! I love this song, I still listen to it every time I get in the car. Haven't gotten sick of it yet.

What does the fact that you still enjoy hearing the song have to do with what we're talking about here?

Ed didn't steal the lyrics from anyone else; they're unique..

No one's accusing him of plagarism, just of writing pathetically dull lyircs.

don't hear many metaphoric lyics these days..

So what is the metaphor present in this song? Where in the lyrics is it represented and what is it that's being represented?

The River is a fun song to listen to. I'm past the age of caring what the freak or frat boy next to me thinks. It may be cheesy, but if I like it, why not enjoy it. And I like the lyrics too.

No one gives a fuck.

Personally, I can relate to the lyrics since one of my hobbies is hiking, particularly in the mountains of Sedona. After a long day of hiking, I'm hot, exhausted, thirsty, and out of nowhere I see a flowing refreshing river, just lying there all naked on the floor, then I proceed to get a handful of the pure cold water, splash it on my face, making my lips tremble. Nothing like a refreshing pool of water from a flowing river in the mountains of Sedona.

Again, this is entirely irrelevant and no one gives a fuck.

Maybe I'm just a hippie, but I love this song; it's brilliant!

Goddamn, the definition of the word "brilliant" has really loosened up over the years, hasn't it?


Let's go ahead and take a look at the lyrics to this song, shall we? I'm tired of the debate. Let's put an end to it right here, right now.

Now, I'm copying and pasting these lyrics from somewhere else, so forgive me if they're not 100% accurate. If you see any mistakes, feel free to point them out.

"It came without warning
A love like I ain't never felt before
She's like my destiny calling
And she's lying there all naked on the floor"


Well, here we get an image of a girl lying on a floor. Cool. I shouldn't even have to point out the poor grammar in line two. Let's see where the song goes from here.

"And suddenly, out of the blue she's singin'..."

Wait a minute, I thought she was lying on the floor? Out of what blue is she singing? Is the floor covered with a blue carpet, perhaps? It's possible, but it seems more likely that it's referencing the blue of the water (re: the title of the song). But if that's the case, then the previous image of her lying on the floor is pointless and meaningless. So, it turns out that the one image present early in the song is merely a spacekeeper. It doesn't add anything to the song, it doesn't develop the song's theme at all, and it actually contradicts the song's theme.

Good job, ed.


"Oh babe, let my lovin' ease your pain
Bring your burning skin to my river once again
I'll give you life
Oh baby, let my lovin' ease your pain tonight"

Ok, so I just searched on google for "ease your pain" lyrics. Let's see how many songs came up:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%...+pain%22+lyrics

I think I just counted 5, on the first page. Two of them had the phrase in their title, the other had it somewhere else within the song.


I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not surprised that ed's apparently incapable of finidng an even semi-creative way to express himself.

Moving on.


"She came without warning
like an angel come from heaven in the night
the kiss makes me tremble
so she pulls me close and holds me oh so tight."

We have another simile here "like an angel come from heaven in the night". I shouldn't have to do a search on google to show how common of an image that is. There have been dozens of songs where the singer describes their lover as an angel. This is so far beyond cliche that it's almost meaningless.

Writers are typically supposed to avoid cliche. It appears as though ed embraces them. Perhaps because he's able to use them as a crutch to hide his inability.


From this point on, these lyrics simply repeat for no apparent reason.


So, if anyone would like to make a counter argument in an attempt to show that these lyrics are creative/unique/worthwhile/anything good, feel free to do so. Otherwise just accept and admit that these lyrics are very poorly written. This doesn't mean that you have to stop liking the song, it just means you need to understand that, objectively, it's horribly put together.

Case closed.

This post has been edited by mrmcpheezy: Dec 14 2006, 1:56 pm

[Soxwsc]

So, if anyone would like to make a counter argument in an attempt to show that these lyrics are creative/unique/worthwhile/anything good, feel free to do so. Otherwise just accept and admit that these lyrics are very poorly written. This doesn't mean that you have to stop liking the song, it just means you need to understand that, objectively, it's horribly put together.

Case closed.

It's pretty fucking stupid to pick out lyrics to a song without listening to the music behind it. For instance, if you read "Salutations to the maker of my finest hour, Goddess, queen, mother, sister,lover, Don't you ever leave", you'd think "What the heck is this?". But if you listen to those lyrics in Like I Do, it sounds pretty cool! The music, melody, and mood in The River match the lyrics perfectly, and it flows flawlessly.

The lyrics aren't as straight-forward as you're presenting them.
Even the lyrics "la dah dah dah la dah dah dah dah" match the imagery of the flowing of a river, in my opinion. Again, it can interpreted as a lover or a river or anything else. They're ambiguous, if you think about it. To me, the song is an ode to rivers around the world.

"It came without warning
A love like I ain't never felt before
She's like my destiny callin'
And she's lyin' there all naked on the floor".. Did you even see the video?

I thought about the following scenario before even seeing the video..(I must've given it more thought): ...You're desparate for water (essential to all forms of life), where there's none to be found, maybe in the desert or mountains. You're hot, dehydrated, and about to pass out when you see a river, without warning, out of the blue, it's like a destiny calling, and the lyrics, "lying naked on the floor" is a great metaphor of what it looks like. It's also dancing on the rocks and making noise like singing "let my lovin ease your pain".

The lyrics aren't as shallow as you think. They may be familiar and cheesy, but the band admitted these were pop songs and they wanted them to be easily accessible.

McPheezy, there's gotta be a ton of other bands/artists you could rip apart and call their work pathetic. Why have you chosen Live, and why do you even care what Live fans think? I would never fathom going to Kelly Clarkson's message board and telling her fans the songs are pathetic.

This post has been edited by Soxwsc: Dec 14 2006, 5:58 pm

[mrmcpheezy]

It's pretty fucking stupid to pick out lyrics to a song without listening to the music behind it.

Why? Lyrics, like poetry, can either be written well or poorly. Granted, sometimes interesting connections between the music and the lyrics can benefit lyrics that might have otherwise appeared un-interesting, but come on, we all know live isn't anywhere near being capable of the creative prowess require for such things.

the music, melody, and mood in The River match the lyrics perfectly, and it flows flawlessly.

I'm not going to agree to disagree here, because this is irrelevant. To say that because it flows (god I hate that word) well, the lack of creaitivty/thought is ok makes no sense to me. They could have come up with something creative and worthwhile that flowed just as well. Sadly, the decided to take the effortless route. Art, as much as some people like to think otherwise, is all about effort. It's all about mastering the various skills and tools associated with your art. If you're not willing to put forth that effort (as live clearly is not), then just shut the fuck up already.

The lyrics aren't as straight-forward as you're presenting them.
Even the lyrics "la dah dah dah la dah dah dah dah" match the imagery of the flowing of a river, in my opinion. Again, it can interpreted as a lover or a river or anything else. They're ambiguous, if you think about it. To me, the song is an ode to rivers around the world.

Ok, maybe it's just me, but the idea of writing an ode to the world's rivers sounds pretty fucking ridiculous.


Regardless, ambiguity (in and of itself) is not worthy of credit.

I thought about the following scenario before even seeing the video..(I must've given it more thought): ...You're desparate for water (essential to all forms of life), where there's none to be found, maybe in the desert or mountains. You're hot, dehydrated, and about to pass out when you see a river, without warning, out of the blue, it's like a destiny calling, and the lyrics, "lying naked on the floor" is a great metaphor of what it looks like. It's also dancing on the rocks and making noise like singing "let my lovin ease your pain".

Ok, thank you for sharing one possible interpretation of the lyrics.

Sadly, this does not make them creative/interesting/unique/un-cliche or anything else. It just means that you've interpreted them a certain way. Wow. How cool.

The lyrics aren't as shallow as you think.

Yes, they are.

They may be familiar and cheesy, but the band admitted these were pop songs and they wanted them to be easily accessible.

Easily accessible does not equal insanely cliche. I've heard plenty of creative, interestingly pieced together pop songs (ala peter gabriel, peeping tom, etc). Don't sit there and say "oh, they weren't trying to be creative, so it's ok that they weren't". How the fuck can you respect an artist that approaches the creative process with the intent of merely being typical and cliche? What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

Do you not realize how stupid it sounds to say that it's ok for artists to not even attempt to be creative? I'd rather think they were trying to do creative stuff and they just failed miserably than to think that they intentionally did the most boring stuff ever.

[mrmcpheezy]

Why? Lyrics, like poetry, can either be written well or poorly. Granted, sometimes interesting connections between the music and the lyrics can benefit lyrics that might have otherwise appeared un-interesting, but come on, we all know live isn't anywhere near being capable of the creative prowess require for such things.
I'm not going to agree to disagree here, because this is irrelevant. To say that because it flows (god I hate that word) well, the lack of creaitivty/thought is ok makes no sense to me. They could have come up with something creative and worthwhile that flowed just as well. Sadly, the decided to take the effortless route. Art, as much as some people like to think otherwise, is all about effort. It's all about mastering the various skills and tools associated with your art. If you're not willing to put forth that effort (as live clearly is not), then just shut the fuck up already.
Ok, maybe it's just me, but the idea of writing an ode to the world's rivers sounds pretty fucking ridiculous.
Regardless, ambiguity (in and of itself) is not worthy of credit.
Ok, thank you for sharing one possible interpretation of the lyrics.

Sadly, this does not make them creative/interesting/unique/un-cliche or anything else. It just means that you've interpreted them a certain way. Wow. How cool.
Yes, they are.
Easily accessible does not equal insanely cliche. I've heard plenty of creative, interestingly pieced together pop songs (ala peter gabriel, peeping tom, etc). Don't sit there and say "oh, they weren't trying to be creative, so it's ok that they weren't". How the fuck can you respect an artist that approaches the creative process with the intent of merely being typical and cliche? What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

Do you not realize how stupid it sounds to say that it's ok for artists to not even attempt to be creative? I'd rather think they were trying to do creative stuff and they just failed miserably than to think that they intentionally did the most boring stuff ever.

No one wants to reply to this?

[torcatofan]

No one wants to reply to this?

I know you would reply to someone with hostility if they said something like that. Basically "reply to my post".

That said, I agree with it.