Live Not Acknowledging Songs From Black Mountain Options

[Hoodstock]

I was reading the Live bio on the official site. It looks like they are not acknowledging Songs From Black Mountain as a Live album.

Here is the excerpt where it gets left out:

"Upon release, its 1997 follow-up Secret Samadhi immediately shot to #1 on the Billboard Top 200 and eventually went six-times platinum. However, on The Distance to Here in 1999, Live turned into an international powerhouse and jumped from arenas into stadiums all over the globe driven by the smash “The Dolphin’s Cry”. V and Birds of Pray followed, continuing to expand their legacy and satiate the rabid and faithful fan base that they had amassed over nearly two decades.

In 2008, the band initiated a hiatus, and Taylor, Gracey, and Dahlheimer founded The Gracious Few alongside Candlebox’s Kevin Martin and Sean Hennesy. The project’s self-titled debut would go on to enjoy critical acclaim as they became a live draw in their own right."


I've always viewed SFBM as Ed's first solo album because the band is on record that they had no input and basically showed up to play their parts. Sounds like the band might agree with that line of thought.

[alexou]

I do think they should write SFBM in their bio, good or not. Chad T. Explained how it was recorded and that he just did the parts he was told too. That's a mistake of CCP to let Ed take control for THAT particular record. They should live with it and still write that album there, because they were touring in 2008-09.

[PurdueSteve]

I do think they should write SFBM in their bio, good or not. Chad T. Explained how it was recorded and that he just did the parts he was told too. That's a mistake of CCP to let Ed take control for THAT particular record. They should live with it and still write that album there, because they were touring in 2008-09.

I think that's a big crux of the whole debate is that the legal maneuverings by Ed helped facilitate that. I think in hindsight CCP wouldn't have lapsed the way they did, but it's not exactly like Ed was making phone calls to get the band together and write and they declined. He had positioned himself as the sole creative process and by the time SFBM came to be, it was the 100% Ed show with CCP as stand-in musicians. If I were them, I'd feel that SFBM wasn't my work because it wasn't. It's just as morally wrong to lay claim to that work as it is technically wrong to omit it from the "Live" portfolio. Personally, I'm fine with them omitting it. Everyone who cares knows it was all Ed. No one really considers it "Live". I don't think anyone can sit here with a straight face and say it belongs in the Live portfolio more than it does in the Ed Kowalczyk portfolio.

This post has been edited by PurdueSteve: Apr 30 2014, 1:23 pm

[Bremang]

I don't think anyone can sit here with a straight face and say it belongs in the Live portfolio more than it does in the Ed Kowalczyk portfolio.

Just watch Chad Gracey work the drums, Pat work the bass, and Chad T slam the guitar on the chorus. Less than stellar song to many fans, but there is clearly Live's input, not an Ed Kowalczyk solo effort.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGNpQ6if8Q

I agree that CCP had little to do with the songwriting, but I would have to say it belongs in the Live portfolio, even solely because the name Live is on the album. That ends the debate to me. Also, CCP placed their musical influence on the SFBM songs in concert, making it Live and not just Ed Kowalczyk. Furthermore, if the standard for Ed Kowalczyk songs is that Ed writes the music without the band, then there certainly is the argument that Ed wrote alot of the previous work as well, even though nobody would call TC material or SS material an Ed Kowalczyk solo effort.


There's no reason that CCP even need to list their albums directly in their bio, so it does seem like the omission may have been intentional.

But I also see no reason to mess up the year of the hiatus, which makes me think that possibly the writer made mistakes unintentionally.

[PurdueSteve]

I agree that CCP had little to do with the songwriting, but I would have to say it belongs in the Live portfolio, even solely because the name Live is on the album. That ends the debate to me. Also, CCP placed their musical influence on the SFBM songs in concert, making it Live and not just Ed Kowalczyk. Furthermore, if the standard for Ed Kowalczyk songs is that Ed writes the music without the band, then there certainly is the argument that Ed wrote alot of the previous work as well, even though nobody would call TC material or SS material an Ed Kowalczyk solo effort.

Maybe I misunderstand it based on CTs blogs/postings but....

1) SFBM - CT/PD (and maybe CG, not clear on his part) did NOT write their own instruments.
2) Prior to SFBM (with the exception of a few tracks on the later albums) - CT, PD and CG did write their own instrument parts.

When people say "Ed wrote such and such song", he didn't sit down at a drum kit like Dave Ghrol. He doesn't pick up a bass guitar. He writes, as he always says, with his acoustic and his voice, which is without a doubt the main bulk of a song.

Additionally, regardless of who wrote each instrument, there are other "song writing" elements such as arrangement of the song (does a bridge occur after the 2nd chorus or before the 2nd chorus?) mixing input, song title, ect. It's strongly implied that CT,PD,CG were left out of this process considerably more. If you couple that with Ed's legal maneuverings, it's not hard to understand why at the time, CCP were complacent and just doing what they were "told" (as CT himself put it). It's not really an excuse and in hindsight I'm sure they'd all do things differently if they had a do-over.

Sure "Live" is on the front of SFBM but when CCP did decide to stand their ground the result was a hiatus and Ed's solo CD "Alive". Had CCP remained complacent that album would've had "Live" stamped on it as well. (Remember Ed showing Zion as a new Live song?) The stamping on the the album cover unfortunately did not accurately reflect the artistic process of the music underneath the cover.

This post has been edited by PurdueSteve: May 1 2014, 8:03 am