The Flood and The Mercy - reviews Options

[dangum]

The album is now available in some European markets.

Please use this thread to post your review of the album.

[PurdueSteve]

You confused the argument. DQ was talking about the "overuse," of Ed's non verbal vocals, to which she described was Ed singing "over" the music. That could mean frequency, or it could mean she thinks Ed is putting the vocals too loud in the mix, or both. My response covered both.

Seems clear to me which she was referring to.

When you first chimed in, you made no mention of frequency, as you now claim is the main point. All you said was that some of Ed's non verbal vocals had more meaning than others. You also claim now that the frequency has gone up. You also claim that it's not opinion, but rather a fact that certain Live music is better than other music.

If Ed's own comments aren't good enough for the discussion, then nothing is. Some of Ed's non-verbals do indeed mean more than others. The frequency has gone up. Speaking in general terms, Live's earlier music is better than Live's later music and Ed's solo stuff. While sure, from the perspective of any one person, one could prefer SFBM to SS or Alive to TC, but when considering the fanbase as a whole, it's really not an opinion that TC is considered better than SFBM.

So again, my response covered all of that. And I think your response is generally wrong. I don't think it's so much a fact, but rather your opinion, that certain Live music would be thought of as better by you or anyone. I also think it's your opinion that certain non verbal vocals have more or less meaning than others, cause a song can mean anything to the listener. And as I said before, Ed has been doing the non verbal vocals from day one. MJ, TC, SS, TDTH has non verbal vocals in almost every song.

Again the presence of non-verbals does not quantify frequency. You are saying that because there are some on say MJ, that it would make it OK for them to be used in every song on a later album. That just doesn't make sense.

As for the meanings of non-verbals, no one was discussing listener interpretations. The argument was around Ed's usage of non-verbals and how it's perceived by some as an element of his ego. That has everything to do with Ed's intention or meaning behind a non-verbal and nothing to do with how one listener might interpret them. Like I said, Ed himself stated that the PLOTR intro was inspired by something specifically and that the whole track was going for that kind of sound. It does not matter if that's your interpretation of it or not, at least relative to a discussion of Ed's ego and non-verbals being an indicator of it. Having a specific meaning or setting you're trying to get at with a non-verbal versus just singing la-da-da-da-da in a false-setto just because aren't the same thing, no matter how you try to spin it.

Also, I don't think you have a handle on Ed's songwriting. Just cause you hear evidence of one track doesn't mean that's how all his songs come to be. Also, your comparison of Ed's control of Live's music to the quality of the music, is again your opinion, and the correlation is shrouded by so many factors. Ed wrote the fan favorites as well, and his voice was fresher was he was young. For instance, it could be more that Ed was young and inspired, opposed to having let CCP have control, which made the music more likable to you.

Again, I don't just make shit up for the sake of debate. Ed's songwriting process has been detailed by him in countless interviews. I hear evidence of it on tracks 20 years ago and today. His general process has not changed. He says as much, still to this day. Why do you insist arguing against what the man himself says? I used Face&Ghost as it was a very clear example of it, but it's quite clear in "All That I Wanted" from TFATM.

As for opinion, again read above. In general, the majority would say that Live's earlier work is better than their later work and Ed's solo stuff and that it directly correlates with Ed's control over the band and lack of collaboration. Hell, even by Nicks success metric of sales and concert attendance early Live wins out over later Live and Ed Solo.

This post has been edited by PurdueSteve: Oct 7 2013, 7:48 am