The Ride, Curious on what you all think... Options

[World Dreamer]

Is it me or has Ed completely become whoever he is talking to in The Ride? Or did I just completely misunderstand the song?

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Jul 26 2012, 3:56 pm

[Pokey]

It doesn't go to gotigrz levels until people tell each other they're going to hell


Fish - my question is, for someone so knowledgable in religion and so many religions and spirituality in general... What makes you say you're a Christian then? Out of all the stuff you've read and the fact you seem extremely rational and well grounded so you've obviously chosen Christianity above the others as the one that is the right one, but why it? Personally I think they all (almost) make about as much sense as each other. I can't see any religion ever winning me over as much as a simple talk from Richard Dawkins

I think I find the history of religion interesting, but to me it's about the same as the history of nursery rhymes... Just more interesting because of the effect it's had on people. When I was in Malaysia earlier this month I was in a city with so many different religions living harmoniously side by side it was fantastic. I went into this huge mosque and the Imam had a long chat with me discussing the shared beliefs of Islam, Judaism and Christianity which was really interesting, he went on what I think was the biggest anti terrorism rant I have ever heard (and I thought Americans hated terrorists, they had nothing on this guys take on terrorists making him and his people into bad guys). It was great... Then he started quoting things that Mary said, and suddenly wrapped this in with the history and I guess that's where I drew the line.
So I'm not surprised at your fascination in religion, but surprised that you chose one and went "yep, that's the one!"

[FishOutaWater]

It doesn't go to gotigrz levels until people tell each other they're going to hell
Fish - my question is, for someone so knowledgable in religion and so many religions and spirituality in general... What makes you say you're a Christian then? Out of all the stuff you've read and the fact you seem extremely rational and well grounded so you've obviously chosen Christianity above the others as the one that is the right one, but why it? Personally I think they all (almost) make about as much sense as each other. I can't see any religion ever winning me over as much as a simple talk from Richard Dawkins

I think I find the history of religion interesting, but to me it's about the same as the history of nursery rhymes... Just more interesting because of the effect it's had on people. When I was in Malaysia earlier this month I was in a city with so many different religions living harmoniously side by side it was fantastic. I went into this huge mosque and the Imam had a long chat with me discussing the shared beliefs of Islam, Judaism and Christianity which was really interesting, he went on what I think was the biggest anti terrorism rant I have ever heard (and I thought Americans hated terrorists, they had nothing on this guys take on terrorists making him and his people into bad guys). It was great... Then he started quoting things that Mary said, and suddenly wrapped this in with the history and I guess that's where I drew the line.
So I'm not surprised at your fascination in religion, but surprised that you chose one and went "yep, that's the one!"

Apparently, according to some, I am not a Christian because I don't have the same interpretation of it as they do! To answer your question, I am a spiritual person and i believe there is a God. It is true that I have studied a variety of religious traditions extensively. I did become extremely uncomfortable in the process. I think i like buddhism the best. But having been raised as a Christian, i could not fully remove myself from the framework of that tradition because it had been engrained in me. In the end, the one thing that eventually gave me comfort is the approach to Christianity that Marcus Borg describes in his books. He talks about how all of the worlds major religious traditions point people toward the same creator and have similar principles. In the end, you need to find the tradition that works best for you as the vehicle to carry you along the path. He says that for him and for many, because we were trained to be Chrisitians from birth, it is the most accessible and has meaning and personal history for us. Looking at it from that approach has brought me around to thinking of myself as a Christian. But having educated myself about the history and scholarly critique of the the bible, and having opened my mind by studying other religions, I don't have the same approach as someone like the person debating me here. But the good news for me is that there are MANY progressive Christians who have found this form of emerging Christianity and there are main line churches who practice it. There is a Presbyterian church and pastor in my area who would not disagree with anything I have said here. I guess they are not Christians by some people's definition of what it takes to be a Christian either.

When I read that John says that Jesus said he was "one with God", I think two things. First, we don't know if Jesus said exactly those words, word for word. Second, he may very well have been expressing an advanced spiritual concept, that we are all one. That we are one with God. The most important prayer in Judaism (and Jesus was a practicing Jew his entire life as we're his followers) is the Shema. There are thousands of years of Talmudic interpretation of the Shema, about how it means that God is one with all things. God is in everything and everything is in God. So that passage from John doesn't tell me at all that Jesus was trying to say "Hey, I'm God!". I get frustrated when people have a limited interpretation of these things and think there is no other way to see it and anyone who doesn't see it the same way they do is wrong. It would take too long to debate every point.

[Pokey]

Apparently, according to some, I am not a Christian because I don't have the same interpretation of it as they do! To answer your question, I am a spiritual person and i believe there is a God. It is true that I have studied a variety of religious traditions extensively. I did become extremely uncomfortable in the process. I think i like buddhism the best. But having been raised as a Christian, i could not fully remove myself from the framework of that tradition because it had been engrained in me.

I was raised a Christian as well, went to a private Christian school who seemed to value teaching religion above English and Maths ... its interesting how it is ingrained in some people, yet to others, like myself, it completely turned me away from religion and Christianity as a whole. I guess Live was a great tool for helping that out when I was younger too, even if my interpretations of some of the songs (Operation Spirit) is different now to back then, I think now that you're basically spot on with it in your blog, but back then I saw it as very anti-Christianity.
But there are still parts ingrained, when I went to a funeral a couple of years ago it was the first time I'd been in a church since I was 17 and just to not cause fuss with the family, and the older members of the family mostly, I just thought I'd follow along as if I believed. It was amazing how much I remembered after all that time - when to stand, when to kneel, the words to different prayers and readings etc... that stuff probably won't leave my head, but any thoughts that I might be wrong for straying away from Christianity are long gone.
I guess part of me is fascinated when I see really intelligent people (which from your posts here, I would consider you an intelligent, articulate, well grounded person) who is a follower of a religion or Christianity. I know in some ways that is completely stupid because it sounds like I mean that if you follow a religion that you're a moron. I don't mean that. But You know how sometimes you know someone and then they tell you they're a huge death metal fan and their favorite band is Cannibal Corpse .. but they have a suit on, crew cut and smoke menthol cigarettes ... and it just shocks you even though there is no real need for it to.
I guess I just so adamantly believe there is no God in any sense that any of real organised religion portray that I can't help but think that if you do think that there is, then you're just wrong. Same way they'd think I'm wrong for thinking there is no God, or not their God at least.

I think I'm atheist to the point where so far there is nothing that I have seen presented to me on any level to make me think "hang on, now they're onto something!" but I still am open enough to think there might be *something* spiritual, or of nature or whatever that is unknown, so I would leave the door ajar just a tiny crack.

There is a Presbyterian church and pastor in my area who would not disagree with anything I have said here. I guess they are not Christians by some people's definition of what it takes to be a Christian either.

The only Christian priest/teacher I've really gotten behind recently has been Father MaGuire, well formerly was a Father, of the South Melbourne Parish until he was forced into retirement earlier this year. He was radical in that for a 77 year old man he was the most "with the times" priest I can recall, even streaming his masses online, making a community group to combat drugs in South Melbourne called the "Bob Squad", having a podcast with a Melbourne comedian each week and media work to help homeless and such, he was just a priest that seemed to focus so little on praising God and how to do that best, and more on community work and that was too radical and so he was forced to retire with many people within the church claiming exactly what you say there, that he doesn't meet the definition of a Christian. But if anyone had a chance of drawing me back to church it was this guy.

A couple of vids of him worth watching just babbling on about Christianity on tv shows, it's refreshing to have this kind of attitude in a church, but equally as depressing that the church didn't want it:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS40GsRXE9A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XG1LtXdtWU

When I read that John says that Jesus said he was "one with God", I think two things. First, we don't know if Jesus said exactly those words, word for word.

Which is exactly where the Imam in the Mosque lost me, going through proven history of where the religions split from each other and the parts they all have in common to suddenly shifting into how we know something because Mary said bla bla bla ... and my first instinct was "hang on, how do you know Mary said that?"