and to burn the crowd that has a name Options

[Badman]

Actually I'm not a religious person in the usual sense of the word, so I wasn't at all offended.
And since I don't wanna go all off topic,we'll leave it at that.

[This thread jumps off this longer discussion in the Ed section]

Believe me, you aren't alone Opine. Most people on this website are pretty non-religious. I do have a theory for this:

In the absence of church leaders telling us what to do, many of us learned to think for ourselves. We sought out music that "made us think" such as TC and MJ which caused us to fall in love with the band. I mean, these songs are all open for interpretation and offer real advice for how to live our lives. We are the world, good pain, and the idea that water is both the giver and the taker of life. This is some deep stuff.

Because many of us feel this way towards religious and shallow music, we have experienced a complete rejection of Ed's new direction. This is a generalization of the fans from my point of view but I'd like to know if this resonates with anyone here. Has this music at some point in your life replaced/stood in for religious feelings?

[sh4rpz]

Has this music at some point in your life replaced/stood in for religious feelings?

For me it has.

I have my beliefs and I conveniently follow bits of my religion which make sense or 'feel right'.

But I will say that LIVE's music and lyrics have had a big effect on the person I am. Spiritually it has hardened my beliefs - whether in God or mankind or just life in general.

Having a shit day? Play a LIVE tune (pre-2000) and you're reminded of the bigger picture and everything appears to be alright again.

I think you have to have that connection with the lyric for it to work for you. Probably why most of us have stuck around with LIVE for so long.

We're immersed in the lyric and the music and at the same time are loyal and pay homage to the fact that these 4 dudes have given us the right words at the times in our lives, whichever point it was - good or bad.

It's a connection I know I'll always have.

Edit: To continue from the comments I and others made in another thread over the last day or so, I would say the above within context, is the reason why I wish the best for Ed. Even though his new persona and music isn't something which appeals to me. I will give it a listen and probably download or buy his CD and go see his show in the subconscious hope that somewhere in there, that same connection we all had with his lyrics pre-2000 will emerge again even for a little while.

This post has been edited by sh4rpz: Jun 22 2012, 2:46 am

[FishOutaWater]

Not to shamelessly promote my blog - but just yesterday I posted a blog entry about Mental Jewelry that discusses the spiritual impact of that album in quite some detail. I hope that people check it out - I would love to know what people think of my blog:

Empty Your Jewelry Box

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Not to shamelessly promote blog...

<promotes blog>

[Pokey]

Not to shamelessly promote blog...

<promotes blog>

You should really have supplied the link to his blog there, to help him out

[thefunkyredcaboose]

You should really have supplied the link to his blog there, to help him out

Hahaha

Just to clarify, I like reading Fish's blog, and I think it's okay to promote it, but if you are concerned about "shamelessly promoting" it then you are clearly feeling some degree of shame about promoting it. It's okay man, it just can't be both ways.

Though if you really want us to read it for the content just post it here.

[FishOutaWater]

You should really have supplied the link to his blog there, to help him out

By the way - on topic - Live has defintiely shaped my sprirituality. It inspired me to read Krishnamurti and Ken Wilber. It made me reflect on the meaning of the lyrics of songs like Mirror Song. After doing that, it is inevitable that your spiritual paradigm will shift at least a little bit one way or the other. Even if you are a Christian both before you experience Live music and after you experience Live music, the expansion of your horizons and understanding attained from listening to Live will alter your grasp on Christianity. I was raised Catholic and I believed that the church was teaching the inerrant truth. Over time, I began to question authority and I had trouble with some fo the beliefs and Live reinforced that thinking. With Live as a musical backdrop to my spiritual journey, I gradually began to investigate and explore spirituality more myself and rely less on what "authorities" taught me. Without that journey, I would not have been able to accept different, more open and universal, emerging views of what it means to be a Christian - like the thoughts found in Marcus Borg's books or the more expansive views in some forms of Protestenism. I went from being very restless about religion to being much more comfortable with it - and seeing more fundamentalist, intractable religious doctrines for what they are.

[Pokey]

Hahaha

Just to clarify, I like reading Fish's blog, and I think it's okay to promote it

So do I, but if we can't poke fun at each other then we might as well go listen to Alive.

[dancing queen]

I'm going to read Fish's blog, but before I do...

When I first heard Live's music, I had turned from the Christianity I grew up in (as I think is common in an adolescent) but I cannot say that I gave a whole lot of thought to the lyric. Until TDTH, and with the exception of LC, I Alone, and White, Discussion - I paid no attention to the lyrics. This might be blashphemous because, really, they're awesome (I pay attention now), but it's true.

What I loved was the sound of Live. the whole sound. instruments and voice, fitting together perfectly.
(which is why any hesitation I had at all about CS as the new vocalist was purely about the sound of his voice - I'm sold, he fits just fine)
Anyway, through my teenage years and college, Live was my favorite band because MJ, TC, SS could be fit any mood, any time, no matter what. And I loved it. There was no other band or even album that I could listen to no matter what I was feeling. In college, I started to come back to my faith, and ironically, that's when I started paying attention to the lyrics.
I appreciate the lyrics for what they are. Those albums (through TDTH) are beautifully written (lyrically and musically). But I did not ever seek guidance from them. I think listening to the albums at times put me in a place where I could relax and do some thinking on my own, but seriously, I remember in college (in 1999 - it was my senior year) reading the lyrics out of mental jewelry and actually paying attention for the first time. I was blown away by the quality of lyric (that I knew by heart and had been singing for years).
this all probably makes me sound like an idiot.
I'm really not an idiot.

but I really didn't even notice the lyric until I'd already found my faith again. TDTH was the first Live album that I listened to with the liner opened, reading the lyrics as I listened for the first time. Every other album (ever - not just LIVE) I typically listen to just sitting and listening without focusing on the lyric when I listen for the first time. That might be why TDTH is so special for me (it's my favorite album in a lot of ways - but so is SS). (and last summer, when two of my grandparents were dying at the same time, all I did was listen to SS over and over and over again. and I got lost in the imagery of the lyric. I think it saved me from permanent insanity)

Anyway, now I'll go read Fish's blog.

[Opinechik]

I can't say that music has ever replaced or stood for religion in my life, no.
I haven't ever not believed in a Creator, but I've never adhered to any organized religion.
I can say that music has touched me spiritually before. I don't mean a religious song, just a song that I like or something and it will play on the radio at just right the moment , depending on what I'm feeling, and as crazy as it may sound, I'll think hmm...someone is with me.

And since I only discovered Live last Aug. or so my spiritual beliefs were already formed.
I do think they have some of the most profound, thought provoking lyrics out there.
As DQ said, from the moment I first heard one of their songs, I loved everything about them.
CCP's incredible talent with their instruments,( I so appreciate what someone can do with their guitar, drums, etc) Ed's voice, in my case the lyrics...the whole kit and kaboodle and that is so rare to find a band like that.

I've yet to really check out Krishnamurt, etc. yet, but I'm sure I will at some point, so in that sense their music may end up affecting my life spiritually.

This post has been edited by Opinechik: Jun 22 2012, 1:28 pm

[Pokey]

I wouldn't say that I have any serious thoughts that music is my "religion", I don't think you can realistically interchange one for another as they're just too different, although I have often joked that my love of Morrissey is religious and The Smiths are the old testament and Solo is the new Testament.

I wouldn't say I "follow" anything people in songs are trying to teach or say, but I do use some music as a way to identify with and articulate my own feelings in a way I could never. As with Morrissey I found such solace in his music and words because they spoke to me, I find that positive and uplifting. I've never understand people who are really down only wanting happy joy-joy music and shunning music that is seen to be "negative". To me hearing the happy-joy-joy when I feel like shit is more like rubbing it in my face. His words are the champions of the dull and mundane, they glorify every day life and I have found comfort through them and through comfort comes strength I guess in some ways.
So in that sense I can see it being sort of like a replacement to religion.

It's funny how there is some music you listen to because of the messages, the words and what they say and the songs really speak to you. Then there is other music where they aren't as important, which doesn't make the music any less great, but there are plenty of artists I listen to which I don't connect with in that deep lyrical way.
Live was a strange mix of the 2, the early stuff really spoke to me with Ed's searching, the power and intensity of his voice, the fact he spoke of questioning and even the fact that I can make up my own interpretations of his words to fit to my life and mean something. That isn't easy to do without sounding formulaic or cheesy. But equally I loved Live for the music, I would love an instrumental of say, Iris or White, Discussion ... Live was truly 4 equal parts I loved as 1.

So now that Ed outright tells us "this is what you should believe to enjoy this music", it doesn't speak to me anymore. The element he had in his writing that spoke to me is gone, and the message he sings about is one I still deeply question, but likewise the music has taken such a dive that I can't enjoy the songs on that other level I was talking about, where you don't HAVE to listen to music for deep meaning and enlightenment. So to me his music (and what Live became in its career) was a husk. Totally shallow and pointless to me. I feel like after having listened so intently over the years to him and having dissected every bit of every song and studied them, maybe like religious texts, whenever Ed sings/speaks I am programmed to listen. But now that what I am hearing is just I can't stand, but in terms of content and creativity, it is incredibly difficult to shut out and enjoy on any other level. When people say "I really don't like Ed's stuff now, but oh, that voice, I'll always love that voice". I can't do that, I can't derive any pleasure from his new stuff and Live's later stuff because Live to me are/were a content band.

Coming full circle to a long by Morrissey, "it says nothing to me about my life", and for what I call "content music" which is the music you do dissect to pieces it has to speak to me about my life and has to sound creative and not lazy otherwise it's lost on me.

[Opinechik]

Oh, how I wish I enjoyed his voice now....
I'd love to have more to be a fan of after 2000ish.

[+Ed+]

Fish, update the separate thread for your blog each time you update it. I am not sure everyone is subscribed to the tweets to see when it happens.

[Lebanon Corvalis]

By the way - on topic - Live has defintiely shaped my sprirituality. It inspired me to read Krishnamurti and Ken Wilber. It made me reflect on the meaning of the lyrics of songs like Mirror Song. After doing that, it is inevitable that your spiritual paradigm will shift at least a little bit one way or the other. Even if you are a Christian both before you experience Live music and after you experience Live music, the expansion of your horizons and understanding attained from listening to Live will alter your grasp on Christianity. I was raised Catholic and I believed that the church was teaching the inerrant truth. Over time, I began to question authority and I had trouble with some fo the beliefs and Live reinforced that thinking. With Live as a musical backdrop to my spiritual journey, I gradually began to investigate and explore spirituality more myself and rely less on what "authorities" taught me. Without that journey, I would not have been able to accept different, more open and universal, emerging views of what it means to be a Christian - like the thoughts found in Marcus Borg's books or the more expansive views in some forms of Protestenism. I went from being very restless about religion to being much more comfortable with it - and seeing more fundamentalist, intractable religious doctrines for what they are.

So this conversation has moved over here,cool. Let me see if I can hit everything we talked about on the other thread. Sorry if I jump all over the place I'm watching my 14 month or old and hes all over the place......anywhooo

I'm a practicing Christian. I listen to all kinds of stuff Tupac to KISS to The Beatles to Johnny Cash to The Dandy Warhols to Mano Chau To Lady GaGa and them some. (yes I said Lady GaGa) I love music and I love being a Christian. That doesn't make me a douche bag hater or some clone who can't think for himself and is forced to Love ALiVE cause Ed is a fellow Christian.

Not one part of my religion tells me what I can and should not be listening to, "My pastor has never given me a "christian cd and said "check this chick out she rocks for the Lord throw out your evil LIVE cd and start bumping DC Talk"

Music can be a religious experience I believe that I have seen it a few times especially at Marlyn Manson shows, People worship that guy and start crying for his ass, its crazy. I think he writes catchy stuff that is fun to drive too.

I have never chosen music or thought of it as a replacement for my religion. Music for me is several things it's my peace time, my enjoyment, my drive, Its is the soundtrack to my life. Some of it is Shit Like Scott Weilands X-mas album and some of it is thought provoking like MJ-TDTH or Bob Dylans "Time out of Mind". Just cause I'm religious that doesn't mean I can't appreciate a different perspectives.

What I got from LIVE's music and Lyrics was a longing for spiritual growth, It taught me that I need to look around more and notice life isn't perfect, that at times it can be plain fucking terrible, Too Search for answers and don't be so eaisly mis-lead, That its ok to question governments and religions, That there is more to you than what you see in the mirror. These are things I got from LIVE's music and that is why I love this band. So complex and thought provoking and the music wasn't bad either.

Ed's direction may be Christian & thats cool if thats what he wants to do and he's making money. Good for him. i want you to know that I would be the 1st to tell Ed that ALiVE wasn't awesome!
Am I happy that his music is Christian based? No. Cause all the above stuff I wrote about what I got from LIVE's music has become one dimensional. The music only goes in one directions and is boring and unchallenging. I don't have a problem with Christian music or any other styles if its good its good if its bad its bad and if its OK it's ALiVE.

[zmanpga]

Not to shamelessly promote my blog - but just yesterday I posted a blog entry about Mental Jewelry that discusses the spiritual impact of that album in quite some detail. I hope that people check it out - I would love to know what people think of my blog:

Empty Your Jewelry Box

good job!