V vs SFBM 2:, lyrical comparisons Options

[LiveRoCkS77]

Please feel free to compare lyrical mishaps from these two albums. Post the worst and post the best. /By the end, hopefully we can mostly agree as to which was most poorly written.

My vote goes to V....although I'm open to being proven wrong.

Let the shitslinging begin!

This post has been edited by LiveRoCkS77: Sep 7 2011, 7:24 am

[Pokey]

I still say no matter what that I'd listen to V 10 times over before listening to SFBM once. The problem with comparing the lyrics is that so much of SFBM is just absolutely as safe as you can get, the lyrics biggest crime are being so god damn dull and boring. V has some shockers, like really bad, but I still like the fact that I can have fun with it more so because you know it was written in a heartbeat. It wasn't really trying to say something and failing like SFBM.

SFBM suffered badly from overuse of the word "like" and using way too many bad similes. "Such and such is like such and such", its one of the worst, laziest and most dull forms of song writing you can come up with. I know not every use of the word 'like' is when you're comparing something to something else, but there are 54 "like"'s in SFBM as opposed to V's 22.
Infact looking at Live's albums from MJ to V the word "like" increases with every album bar the first, it goes from - 9, 8, 10, 18, 22, 36, 54 ... that's amazing to think that such a word and the way it's used to just keep increasing and increasing .. no surprise that as it increases, the song writing quality decreases. I think it's just an example of how the song writing gets lazier.

[LiveRoCkS77]

I still say no matter what that I'd listen to V 10 times over before listening to SFBM once. The problem with comparing the lyrics is that so much of SFBM is just absolutely as safe as you can get, the lyrics biggest crime are being so god damn dull and boring. V has some shockers, like really bad, but I still like the fact that I can have fun with it more so because you know it was written in a heartbeat. It wasn't really trying to say something and failing like SFBM.

SFBM suffered badly from overuse of the word "like" and using way too many bad similes. "Such and such is like such and such", its one of the worst, laziest and most dull forms of song writing you can come up with. I know not every use of the word 'like' is when you're comparing something to something else, but there are 54 "like"'s in SFBM as opposed to V's 22.
Infact looking at Live's albums from MJ to V the word "like" increases with every album bar the first, it goes from - 9, 8, 10, 18, 22, 36, 54 ... that's amazing to think that such a word and the way it's used to just keep increasing and increasing .. no surprise that as it increases, the song writing quality decreases. I think it's just an example of how the song writing gets lazier.

Agreed, but lazy songwriting can still be very good in some instance. The Notorious B.I.G was a prime example ofthis, although the genre being different. Same With Marshall Mathers. Two very talented and clever songwriters. Their use of the word like is almost profane to a point. Anybody who wants to argue differently might as well save it.

I think where the writing suffers is in the realm of open interpretation. Live's music asked questions early on in a very subtle and clever way. The lyrics meant something different to everybody. In Ed's later work, there was almost none of that. The pretense seemingly being that all of his answers have been found.

To me, a major flaw in life is simply failure to stop asking the pertinent questions. People who profess to have found the answers are simply lying to themselve in oh so many instances. Life is a marvellous wonder that poses an infinite number of questions that we can only guess the answers to.

I simply do not think for one second that the major failure in the song writing was grammatical. I think that's the least of the worries when it comes to the substance of this music.

[OutToDry]

in a dream i had
you were standin all alone
with a dyin' world below
and a microphone
singin' hallejuhah
i finally broke their mold

whatever its gonna take
good luck, keep it real
where (are) the boys in LIVE?
they're pissin' in the mainstream
open up your cage
focus all your rage
the world needs people like you

in a dream i had
i was on a stage with queen
michael stipe and elton john
bono and springsteen
singin hallejuhah, rock and roll is king

whatever its gonna take
good luck, keep it real
where (are) the boys in LIVE?
they're pissin' in the mainstream
open up your cage
focus all your rage
the world needs people like you

people like you!
people like you!
motherfuckers like you!
people like you!

in a dream i had
you were standin all alone
with a dyin' world below
and a microphone
singin' hallejuhah
i finally broke their mold

whatever its gonna take
good luck, keep it real
where (are) the boys in LIVE?
they're pissin' in the mainstream
open up your cage
focus all your rage
the world needs people like you
people like you
____________________

This right here signifies resting on your laurels, perhaps props to the fans, but utter sheer contradiction. This should have never been released. The bridge in the song is cool though.
End of the band right here.

This post has been edited by OutToDry: Sep 7 2011, 11:34 am

[World Dreamer]

What I noticed in SFBM is that probably 85% of the songs I could literally sing along with and finish many of the lines the FIRST time I listened to them. I could just tell what was coming.

That is how predictable it was.

[Pokey]

Lazy songwriting in Ed's case, is not good .. when he's good he's amazing, when he's bad he's deplorable.

I think the open interpretation is a big part of it, not everything, but a part of it. The fact you can listen to SS for example and get a lot of different theories on exactly what a song is about and no one really be right or wrong, can be pretty special. Its not that they're nonsensical lyrics, just very open to interpretation. Where as SFBM it's all very "this is what this song is, nothing else". It's quite dull.

It's not a grammatical failing to say that the overuse of similes is a major failure. There is nothing grammatically incorrect about it or anything. Song writing is one time when grammar and the general laws of English can be thrown out the window - poetic licence. Sometimes it can actually enhance songs to take a little liberties with grammar and such. Sometimes you can even draw really beautiful similes. But when overused and really unimaginative its very dull. It sort of does go hand in hand with the open interpretation thing ... that style of writing isn't promoting creativity or indeed as you say, asking the pertinent questions. It's specifically saying "hey look at this, its like this". Its very limiting.

V's lyrics are all over the place and completely different to anything Ed had written before. It was like he just got coked up and thought he'd give something new a go (strong possibility thats what happened maybe!). So it's hard to get too worked up or angry at them because they're just ... throw away. Where as with SFBM you get the feel he sat down and went "ok, lets give this my best shot to write something good". And it churned out what it did.
I'm certainly not saying one is better than the other, just that one is worse than the other

[LiveRoCkS77]

Lazy songwriting in Ed's case, is not good .. when he's good he's amazing, when he's bad he's deplorable.

I think the open interpretation is a big part of it, not everything, but a part of it. The fact you can listen to SS for example and get a lot of different theories on exactly what a song is about and no one really be right or wrong, can be pretty special. Its not that they're nonsensical lyrics, just very open to interpretation. Where as SFBM it's all very "this is what this song is, nothing else". It's quite dull.

It's not a grammatical failing to say that the overuse of similes is a major failure. There is nothing grammatically incorrect about it or anything. Song writing is one time when grammar and the general laws of English can be thrown out the window - poetic licence. Sometimes it can actually enhance songs to take a little liberties with grammar and such. Sometimes you can even draw really beautiful similes. But when overused and really unimaginative its very dull. It sort of does go hand in hand with the open interpretation thing ... that style of writing isn't promoting creativity or indeed as you say, asking the pertinent questions. It's specifically saying "hey look at this, its like this". Its very limiting.

V's lyrics are all over the place and completely different to anything Ed had written before. It was like he just got coked up and thought he'd give something new a go (strong possibility thats what happened maybe!). So it's hard to get too worked up or angry at them because they're just ... throw away. Where as with SFBM you get the feel he sat down and went "ok, lets give this my best shot to write something good". And it churned out what it did.
I'm certainly not saying one is better than the other, just that one is worse than the other

I agree with what you're saying somewhat, but I completely disagree on the lyrics thing. I think the lyrics on V and SFBM are very similar on many different levels. I think this is where it all got started and that's why I hated it so much. By the time SFBM came along, I was already both expecting and used to it. V came on the heels of Live's debatably most spectacular and complete album. It was a complete and utter failure both lyrically and musically.

You hear the way he sings the opening line in People like you?? Sound more pussified than almost anything on SFBM. V doesn't really rock more, it's just not as pop sounding as SFBM. But musically, it's still amateur and completely sucks balls. Especially coming off the heels of TDTH.

So not to say that SFBM is necessarily better, but when you look at where it came from, it really does. V and SFBM were both equally gross, but again, when SFBM came out, we expected nothing more. When V hit and I listened to it from start to finish??? I was fucking horrified.


Let's continue with this....

Transmit Your Love

bow, bow everybody body in the hotel bow,
bow everybody in the motel don't knock if the door to my suite is closed
you should of come to the show but you didn't,
now you're wishin' that you had had to go to jimmy buffet
with your dad with LIVE,
its game seven every single night you have to put it on the line to step inside

transmit your love to me and silently make me whole again
transmit your love to me

bow, bow put your ear to the door and bow,
bow put your face to the floor and through the crack,
see the people kickin it inside and leavin it all behind in the name of love,
we raise the roof in the name of love,
do what we came to do in a town tonight where the streets have no name
and everybody feels the same the outside world is a goddamn shame

transmit your love to me and silently make me whole again
transmit your love to me

come on! tell your leaders love is in town to turn this whole thing
upside down we can't take it anymore

transmit your love to me silently make me whole again
transmit your love to me

(welcome to my world of love welcome to my space
above this sacred love welcome to my space of bliss
drive me to the heart of this sacred love sacred love)



I mean, come on!!! "Tell your leaders love is in town, to turn this whole thing upside down!""

That's absolutely fucking horrid!!!

"With Live it's game seven every single night, you have to put it on the line to step inside."

Can it get any more god damned cheesy???

YES...YES IT CAN!!!

The line leading into it is even worse!!!

[tiger]

I think they're equally as bad, with V perhaps being worse lyrically. And the rapping, wow, simply nauseating. Without much of anything from C,C,P though, I just can't tolerate the sappy, soft, adult contemporary elevator music of SFBM. A little more input from the guys and my vote would probably go to SFBM. Wings came off better than I would have expected on the Paradiso DVD, but you get more of C,C,P in that performance.

[LiveRoCkS77]

I think they're equally as bad, with V perhaps being worse lyrically. And the rapping, wow, simply nauseating. Without much of anything from C,C,P though, I just can't tolerate the sappy, soft, adult contemporary elevator music of SFBM. A little more input from the guys and my vote would probably go to SFBM. Wings came off better than I would have expected on the Paradiso DVD, but you get more of C,C,P in that performance.

I guess I can agree with most all of what you've said here. But songs like Mystery, Wings and especially Sophia were so much better in concert that it's hard to explain in words. The production fucking raped a few of those songs. They sound utterly fucking cheeseballed on the cd, but in concert, were more than tolerable whereas listening to songs like Simple Creed, even in concert, were fucking embarassing at times. Like a Soldier is possibly the single worst song I've ever seen performed at any concert I've ever seen. It made me embarassed to be there and it just didn't fit with any of the other tunes they played.

I lend some credence to how songs sound when played at a show, where they haven't been dumbed down. For instance, I heard them play Like I Do in concert once and it was better or just as good as any of the dozen or so times I've seen them play White Discussion. It was still good on the cd, but nowhere near in the same league as in concert. Even The River, as much as I utterly despise it, was much better sounding and more rockin' then any song I ever heard them play off of V at any show I've ever been to.

[OutToDry]

Transmit your Love should be voted the worst ever Live song....I think there is a thread here someplace and this was the winnah!!!

Dripping Cheese all the way.

[rock4adiference]

Transmit your Love should be voted the worst ever Live song....I think there is a thread here someplace and this was the winnah!!!

Dripping Cheese all the way.

I have never heard that song before. I just listened to a 30 sec clip on Last FM...that was 30 seconds too much! That was just awful!

[OutToDry]

nothing to see there rock4, move along, it's ugly.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

I like the music of TYL.

[World Dreamer]

I have said it often. V, for me, gets a pass because of what it was supposed to be and what it ended up being forced to be.

It wasn't supposed to be an album. The songs were supposed to be experimental. They weren't supposed to be released like that. The record company made it happen though. To me it is obvious that most of the songs on V were written quickly and never really put through the "does this suck or should we keep it like it is?" part of the writing process. I could be wrong but coming off the heels of TDTH I don't see how some of those lyrics could have seen the light of day if that wasn't somewhat true.

But with SFBM, none of that was the case. SFBM was a completely serious effort.

This post has been edited by World Dreamer: Sep 7 2011, 12:21 pm

[+Ed+]

I think we must hop to discussing the BEST Live works, not WORST