"I'm not a christian, but it feels good to be in The Chapel", Ed Kowalczyk Options

[livebat]

I've just listen again all my bootlegs of Live and right now I'm listen "I Alone" for the concert in the Chapel, date: 2000-03-13.

Just want to share, again, like everyone, how much I miss Ed... If this thread is repetitive, it's because all we are concerned in different ways... Like I said: It's not religions fault, but in a way the people who didn't know what to believe, finds the wrong answer on them.

Want my +Live+ back!!!

[OutToDry]

You may get it back someday Bat. Someday somehow. Not sure it will be even remotely the same as what you remember, unless something miraculous happens.

Found that this opening line is probably forgotten by a lot. Interesting that it's how the show opens. Damn good show though.

[livebat]

Hope so, I really do. Every single fuckin' day, I read the posts in the forums (every forum) searchin a good new. I'm totally in love about the thoughts that Taylor shares with us, because those are real. The interviews with Ed, his smile in every song, he doesn't feel the music anymore, he's searchin' a light or a camera... I know that the rockstars always do that, but my favorite singer, the person who inspire me to be a songwriter, is here and gone...

I know that almost everyone feels the same way, and is unfair that today I write a post tryin' to make my words worth... But lately I need, not a fuckin' preacher who tells me that "everything it's gonna be all right, kiddo", but a great artist, like Kowalczyk was, who stands in the frontline of the inner soul that always wrote...

Sorry (as always) about my english, but you get the big picture... Outtodry, believe that everyday is great to know that someone in this forum (like Aitkens, Dan, Hoodstock... Etc) shares the same thought, objective...

I just bought "Alive", and I still love Ed's voice... but somethin's missing... Hope, really hope that he understands "The Gravity of the Situation" and we can get them back on track (as Live) and start to "Walk The Line" togheter again...

[OutToDry]

Good stuff there man. At least you'll have your old recordings to commemorate those times. See what the future holds.

[gotigrz]

the thing is, is that ed (from everything i've heard or read) IS a Christian, now. and, when and if someone TRULY becomes a Christian... then they become a different person than what they were.

ed's old lyrics were edgy... full of angst... and, uncertainty. that was because he was mad at the world (much like a lot of '90's rock) and he was out looking for answers to "truth". well, if ed's claim of being a Christian is, in fact, honest truth... then he has found what it is that he's been looking for. the reason ed's voice has changed is cause his soul has changed. what was angst... is now joy.

the thing is, is that in live's old stuff... we all loved their stuff cause you could feel ed pouring his heart and soul out in every lyric. and, if you were not a Christian... you could really connect with what ed was saying. that's why, as a Christian and live fan, i had trouble with connecting w/ ed's lyrics. i LOVED live's "sound", but i had difficulty w/ ed's lyrics. but, now... i believe, ed is, once again, pouring his heart and soul out in his lyrics again... they're just lyrics based on a faith in Christ. and, if you're not a believer in Christ... you won't be able to connect with what ed is saying like you use to.

honestly, i don't dig on ed's new sound... it's a lot more "busy" than what i like, but, i can totally connect with what he's saying. if you're a Christian, then you'd happily replace your "want" for your favorite music with your "want" for someone's salvation. so, with that said... i'm very happy for ed.

i get the sense that many of you hope that live will one day get back together and "start over" in a sense... and start rocking out like the old days.... i can promise you that ain't gonna happen. they may get back together,... but, it'll never be the same. ed cannot be a Christian... and, write and sing songs like the songs of old. why do you think he's changed the lyrics in so many of his old songs? it's not cause he's trying to be cheesy and change the lyric to a happy Christian one... it's cause he has a conflict w/in his soul that wont let him sing those lyrics w/ any meaning.... cause he doesn't mean them, anymore.

as you all know, i am a Christian... and, i physically prayed for the salvation of ed's soul around the time that ed pretty much made it well known that he had found Christ. so, i don't claim to be the reason of ed's salvation... but, i do claim that my prayer was answered. and, i can only pray that anyone here that doesn't know Christ will, someday, get to know Him.

peace.

[PurdueSteve]

the thing is, is that ed (from everything i've heard or read) IS a Christian, now. and, when and if someone TRULY becomes a Christian... then they become a different person than what they were.

ed's old lyrics were edgy... full of angst... and, uncertainty. that was because he was mad at the world (much like a lot of '90's rock) and he was out looking for answers to "truth". well, if ed's claim of being a Christian is, in fact, honest truth... then he has found what it is that he's been looking for. the reason ed's voice has changed is cause his soul has changed. what was angst... is now joy.

the thing is, is that in live's old stuff... we all loved their stuff cause you could feel ed pouring his heart and soul out in every lyric. and, if you were not a Christian... you could really connect with what ed was saying. that's why, as a Christian and live fan, i had trouble with connecting w/ ed's lyrics. i LOVED live's "sound", but i had difficulty w/ ed's lyrics. but, now... i believe, ed is, once again, pouring his heart and soul out in his lyrics again... they're just lyrics based on a faith in Christ. and, if you're not a believer in Christ... you won't be able to connect with what ed is saying like you use to.

honestly, i don't dig on ed's new sound... it's a lot more "busy" than what i like, but, i can totally connect with what he's saying. if you're a Christian, then you'd happily replace your "want" for your favorite music with your "want" for someone's salvation. so, with that said... i'm very happy for ed.

i get the sense that many of you hope that live will one day get back together and "start over" in a sense... and start rocking out like the old days.... i can promise you that ain't gonna happen. they may get back together,... but, it'll never be the same. ed cannot be a Christian... and, write and sing songs like the songs of old. why do you think he's changed the lyrics in so many of his old songs? it's not cause he's trying to be cheesy and change the lyric to a happy Christian one... it's cause he has a conflict w/in his soul that wont let him sing those lyrics w/ any meaning.... cause he doesn't mean them, anymore.

as you all know, i am a Christian... and, i physically prayed for the salvation of ed's soul around the time that ed pretty much made it well known that he had found Christ. so, i don't claim to be the reason of ed's salvation... but, i do claim that my prayer was answered. and, i can only pray that anyone here that doesn't know Christ will, someday, get to know Him.

peace.

Except his Christian self is still singing those songs of old. He has updated some lyrics but many he hasn't updated and contradict his salvation in lord baby jebus.

While I'm sure that you're elated that another soul has found itself with your particular flavor of brainwashing, the rest of us here, who have followed this band realize that Ed's M.O. changes with the seasons. He's a Christian now, but next week he'll be a Buddhist and the week after that he'll be back to talking about fucking on a beach with dolphins. He flip flops more than a politician on the campaign trail.

[deepenoughtodive]

Just because someone has a history of something doesn't mean they will continue it. He was on a search for spirtual truth. As a Christian myself, I don't see him changing his beliefs anytime soon because I believe Christianity is spiritual truth. Why would he change to something else after he's found the truth?

Now if his current beliefs aren't genuine.....yes, he may be onto something else soon.

Either way, he is very young in his Christian faith at this point. Forgiveness and reconciliation are essential and he seems uninterested in either regarding his former bandmates. I hope that changes eventually.

Except his Christian self is still singing those songs of old. He has updated some lyrics but many he hasn't updated and contradict his salvation in lord baby jebus.

While I'm sure that you're elated that another soul has found itself with your particular flavor of brainwashing, the rest of us here, who have followed this band realize that Ed's M.O. changes with the seasons. He's a Christian now, but next week he'll be a Buddhist and the week after that he'll be back to talking about fucking on a beach with dolphins. He flip flops more than a politician on the campaign trail.

This post has been edited by deepenoughtodive: Mar 29 2011, 9:33 am

[PurdueSteve]

Just because someone has a history of something doesn't mean they will continue it. He was on a search for spirtual truth. As a Christian myself, I don't see him changing his beliefs anytime soon because I believe Christianity is spiritual truth. Why would he change to something else after he's found the truth?

Now if his current beliefs aren't genuine.....yes, he may be onto something else soon.

Either way, he is very young in his Christian faith at this point. Forgiveness and reconciliation are essential and he seems uninterested in either regarding his former bandmates. I hope that changes eventually.

You're argument is invalid when you point to something unverifiable and then call it "truth". You Christians make it sound like Ed has been spiritually lost the past 20 years. He hasn't. He just hasn't been aligned with Christianity and to YOU he's been lost.

You can listen to many songs on TDTH that shows how had spiritual footing. He changed when he found that "truth" so I see no reason he wouldn't change from your particular flavor of "truth". Granted his history doesn't mean he will continue to repeat it, but when all evidence is left to be examined, to make a rationale hypothesis, all evidence suggest he will change paths again. I at least have some evidence to back up my speculation, all you Christians have is some predeposed position of Christianity being the one great truth, as if people don't stop believing in Christianity. People do it everyday. It's no more the one spiritual truth than any other religion out there. We're all agnostics/atheists, I just believe in one less God than you.

[Pokey]

i physically prayed for the salvation of ed's soul around the time that ed pretty much made it well known that he had found Christ.

Fuck .. so it's your fault Live went to shit and Ed's creativity deserted him? At least we know who to blame now!

[deepenoughtodive]

Steve,
I didn't mean to strike a nerve. Yes, I believe Christianity is the truth. I also believe you and everyone else have the right to believe what you want. I should have structured what I said in a different way. It's my opinion that if his faith in Jesus is genuine he won't turn away from it. Your opinion is different from mine and that is ok.

Do people stop believing in Christianity? Definitely. The next question is, did they really believe to begin with? That one I don't know the answer to.

You're argument is invalid when you point to something unverifiable and then call it "truth". You Christians make it sound like Ed has been spiritually lost the past 20 years. He hasn't. He just hasn't been aligned with Christianity and to YOU he's been lost.

You can listen to many songs on TDTH that shows how had spiritual footing. He changed when he found that "truth" so I see no reason he wouldn't change from your particular flavor of "truth". Granted his history doesn't mean he will continue to repeat it, but when all evidence is left to be examined, to make a rationale hypothesis, all evidence suggest he will change paths again. I at least have some evidence to back up my speculation, all you Christians have is some predeposed position of Christianity being the one great truth, as if people don't stop believing in Christianity. People do it everyday. It's no more the one spiritual truth than any other religion out there. We're all agnostics/atheists, I just believe in one less God than you.

[deepenoughtodive]

I prayed the same thing for a couple of years so you can add me to the list. His creativity seemingly deserted him long before I started praying for him.

Fuck .. so it's your fault Live went to shit and Ed's creativity deserted him? At least we know who to blame now!

[PurdueSteve]

Steve,
I didn't mean to strike a nerve. Yes, I believe Christianity is the truth. I also believe you and everyone else have the right to believe what you want. I should have structured what I said in a different way. It's my opinion that if his faith in Jesus is genuine he won't turn away from it. Your opinion is different from mine and that is ok.

Do people stop believing in Christianity? Definitely. The next question is, did they really believe to begin with? That one I don't know the answer to.

Again the same could be said from his beliefs at any point in time in his career. Ed seems to always have had belief. In his younger years he seemed to have issues with organized religion but he had spiritual beliefs. Were those 20 years of belief non-genuine? Your argument can always be reduced to "Christianity is just, um, somehow different". In reality it's not. There's nothing special about Christianity that makes a genuine believer stick to it anymore so than another belief.

Also, for the section I added in bold, that seems to be more of the Christian logic that is an umbrella catch all.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

It sounds similar to the "Well the Lord works in mysterious ways" retort that follows every basic question like "Why did God let those babies die in the Japanese Earthquake?"

[deepenoughtodive]

Again, your opinion is different from mine. You seem to generalize all Christians together. Whatever your experience has been with Christians does not quantify you to speak on all of us as a whole.

Christianity is "umm, somehow different". Yes, I believe this is true.

The churches are filled with people that don't act like they say they believe. This could be that they don't really believe it and are just going to church or saying they believe because it is culturably expected where they live. I live in the south. Lots of people go to church but live in a way that is nothing like the Bible tells us to live.

The same old tired arguments come from your side as well as mine. "Why do bad things happen to good people?" Babies in Japan? What about babies in Indiana? Or Alabama? Or Iraq?
This world is not a good place. Bad things happen all the time. The God I believe in wants a relationship with people but won't force them into one. He also won't make the world all sunshine and rainbows. He is just. But, He also made a way for people to be redeemed. So He is gracious as well.

I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you or anyone else. Just partcipating in a discussion.

Again the same could be said from his beliefs at any point in time in his career. Ed seems to always have had belief. In his younger years he seemed to have issues with organized religion but he had spiritual beliefs. Were those 20 years of belief non-genuine? Your argument can always be reduced to "Christianity is just, um, somehow different". In reality it's not. There's nothing special about Christianity that makes a genuine believer stick to it anymore so than another belief.

Also, for the section I added in bold, that seems to be more of the Christian logic that is an umbrella catch all.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

It sounds similar to the "Well the Lord works in mysterious ways" retort that follows every basic question like "Why did God let those babies die in the Japanese Earthquake?"

[gotigrz]

Again the same could be said from his beliefs at any point in time in his career. Ed seems to always have had belief. In his younger years he seemed to have issues with organized religion but he had spiritual beliefs. Were those 20 years of belief non-genuine? Your argument can always be reduced to "Christianity is just, um, somehow different". In reality it's not. There's nothing special about Christianity that makes a genuine believer stick to it anymore so than another belief.

Also, for the section I added in bold, that seems to be more of the Christian logic that is an umbrella catch all.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

It sounds similar to the "Well the Lord works in mysterious ways" retort that follows every basic question like "Why did God let those babies die in the Japanese Earthquake?"

i believe that his beliefs were genuine, but i don't believe that what his beliefs were in were genuine. like, i believe that a muslim genuinely believes in the word of the quran, but i don't believe that the quran is qenuine.

and, my argument of Christianity as just being different... well, actually i believe that Christianity is different... i believe it to be different because i believe it to be genuine. and, for that.. i believe when someone TRULY becomes a believer in It.... it sticks.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

Christians... all of them... do bad things every day... it's called sin. i think a lot of people that don't agree with Christianity think that Christians walk around with this "holier than thou" attitude that we do no wrong... let me be the first to raise my "red right hand" and say that i am guilty of sinning every day. but, that doesn't make me any less of a Christian. being a Christian isn't about anything that i've done good or bad.... it's about me accepting the fact that Jesus did no wrong, yet died for all that i have done wrong. and, when i say "died for"... i mean "make atonement".

[gotigrz]

Again the same could be said from his beliefs at any point in time in his career. Ed seems to always have had belief. In his younger years he seemed to have issues with organized religion but he had spiritual beliefs. Were those 20 years of belief non-genuine? Your argument can always be reduced to "Christianity is just, um, somehow different". In reality it's not. There's nothing special about Christianity that makes a genuine believer stick to it anymore so than another belief.

Also, for the section I added in bold, that seems to be more of the Christian logic that is an umbrella catch all.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

It sounds similar to the "Well the Lord works in mysterious ways" retort that follows every basic question like "Why did God let those babies die in the Japanese Earthquake?"

i believe that his beliefs were genuine, but i don't believe that what his beliefs were in were genuine. like, i believe that a muslim genuinely believes in the word of the quran, but i don't believe that the quran is qenuine.

and, my argument of Christianity as just being different... well, actually i believe that Christianity is different... i believe it to be different because i believe it to be genuine. and, for that.. i believe when someone TRULY becomes a believer in It.... it sticks.

When Christians do a good thing, it's because they're good Christians
When Christians do a bad thing, it's because they didn't really believe in the first place

Christians... all of them... do bad things every day... it's called sin. i think a lot of people that don't agree with Christianity think that Christians walk around with this "holier than thou" attitude that we do no wrong... let me be the first to raise my "red right hand" and say that i am guilty of sinning every day. but, that doesn't make me any less of a Christian. being a Christian isn't about anything that i've done good or bad.... it's about me accepting the fact that Jesus did no wrong, yet died for all that i have done wrong. and, when i say "died for"... i mean "make atonement".

This post has been edited by gotigrz: Mar 29 2011, 1:02 pm