Impossible Politics Options

[Merica]

I just wrote a blog called Impossible Politics [link removed], which discusses my uncertainty about politics in general. I thought some of you here might relate to my ponderings. If you're interested then feel free to read, and I'd greatly appreciate any comments (on the blog page itself, preferably).

In all honesty, I want Obama to rule England. Dude's cool as fuck. Obama, or Bruce Willis.

This post has been edited by Merica: Jul 19 2018, 8:36 am

[gotigrz]

you can have him... obama, that is... bruce is ours. obama is turning this country into communism/socialism so fast it's not even funny. this country was built on capitalism and that's what has made our country so great. you have a dream, you work for it, you get it. now, with obama at the helm, you have a dream, you work for it, everyone else reaps the benefits.

some might see that as keeping the rich from getting richer and letting the poor enjoy what they wouldn't be able to... that sounds good. but, another way to look at is.... it's taking out incentive. no incentive to work hard cause you're gonna have to pay for that lazy slob's health care and cell phone.... and, no incentive for the lazy slob to get off their butt and get a job cause the gov't is gonna take from the hard working wealthy and give to them.

[Pokey]

you can have him... obama, that is... bruce is ours. obama is turning this country into communism/socialism so fast it's not even funny. this country was built on capitalism and that's what has made our country so great. you have a dream, you work for it, you get it. now, with obama at the helm, you have a dream, you work for it, everyone else reaps the benefits.

some might see that as keeping the rich from getting richer and letting the poor enjoy what they wouldn't be able to... that sounds good. but, another way to look at is.... it's taking out incentive. no incentive to work hard cause you're gonna have to pay for that lazy slob's health care and cell phone.... and, no incentive for the lazy slob to get off their butt and get a job cause the gov't is gonna take from the hard working wealthy and give to them.

That's ok, you're Christian .. just forgive Obama and the lazy slobs and it'll be ok

I can't claim to be an expert on American politics, but getting some kind of healthcare in there is a good thing. In Australia it seems we're trying to move away from that and towards how America has been for so long and it totally sucks.

The oposition said that if they get in this year they will sell Medibank (the last government affiliated private health insurance company ... and the company I work for). This will basically mean it's free for all for private health insurance and no one can be kept honest and humble by the government. But I doubt that will happen as I honestly can't see the oposition winning this year, their leader is a complete joke ... you'd like him though Gotigrz, one of the first things he said when he became leader was that virginity was a gift to girls and they shouldn't give it away before marraige. Yep, that's gonna help our country out.

[Merica]

you can have him... obama, that is... bruce is ours. obama is turning this country into communism/socialism so fast it's not even funny. this country was built on capitalism and that's what has made our country so great. you have a dream, you work for it, you get it. now, with obama at the helm, you have a dream, you work for it, everyone else reaps the benefits.

some might see that as keeping the rich from getting richer and letting the poor enjoy what they wouldn't be able to... that sounds good. but, another way to look at is.... it's taking out incentive. no incentive to work hard cause you're gonna have to pay for that lazy slob's health care and cell phone.... and, no incentive for the lazy slob to get off their butt and get a job cause the gov't is gonna take from the hard working wealthy and give to them.

Those that don't work, under Obama's new plans, won't exactly be living the highest of lives will they? Those who work will be better off and enjoy their splender, but a bit more will be given to those who aren't so high. They'll still be way lower, but now they'll be able to get healthcare. Which I believe everyone should be entitled to. Healthcare should not be something you have to have money to get.

[gotigrz]

Those that don't work, under Obama's new plans, won't exactly be living the highest of lives will they? Those who work will be better off and enjoy their splender, but a bit more will be given to those who aren't so high. They'll still be way lower, but now they'll be able to get healthcare. Which I believe everyone should be entitled to. Healthcare should not be something you have to have money to get.

will they be living the high life? no. but, they wont need to cause the life they will be living will be better than anything they've ever had before. it's not that i won't to keep them down... i just don't like it when people take advantage of the gov't (tax money paid by working americans)... so, that they don't have to lift a finger... except to pick up their monthly check.

In Australia it seems we're trying to move away from that and towards how America has been for so long and it totally sucks

it only sucks for those that want healthcare but don't want to work for it. if you're unable to work, that's one thing, but if you're able and you have figured out ... "hey, if i don't make too much money, or any at all... i'll be given what others have to work for... cause they're the ones paying for it... ha ha ha..."

trust me, the united states of america didn't become the greatest country in the world for so long by running the country the way we are heading. the people of australia can only hope that they go to the old way of the usa... the working people, anyway.

[gotigrz]

Healthcare should not be something you have to have money to get.

see, this is where i disagree... it's not that I don't care about their health.... but, it's them... they're the ones that obviously don't care about their health. if they don't care enough about their health to go out their and GET A FREAKING JOB!!!! then why should i have to get up everyday and go to work and pay taxes so someone else that has the system figured out that as long as they stay unemployed... they'll be taken care of.

this will, in turn, give others the incentive to do the same. what if you only made so much money that you can barely take care of yourself, but you made too much to get benefits from the gov't.... while shamika and her eight kids are living off then gov't with a life, that may not be great, but it's better than you. now, how you like it? cause that's what it is.

[Merica]

will they be living the high life? no. but, they wont need to cause the life they will be living will be better than anything they've ever had before. it's not that i won't to keep them down... i just don't like it when people take advantage of the gov't (tax money paid by working americans)... so, that they don't have to lift a finger... except to pick up their monthly check.

Yeah, they'll be a bit better off, but those who work will still be so much higher. Maybe getting that bit extra will spurr those lower on the totum pole to higher things? I don't know, but I still think even the laziest of leaches deserves healthcare.

see, this is where i disagree... it's not that I don't care about their health.... but, it's them... they're the ones that obviously don't care about their health. if they don't care enough about their health to go out their and GET A FREAKING JOB!!!! then why should i have to get up everyday and go to work and pay taxes so someone else that has the system figured out that as long as they stay unemployed... they'll be taken care of.

Yeah, it sucks, but maybe it's the lesser of the evils. Everyone pays into a pot so everyone can have healthcare. Some undeserving lazy people will get taken care of, yes, but I'll bet there's also a few underprivaleged families who REALLY need and appreciate it. You're a working, secure man. You're fine. You just gotta suck it up and give a little.

this will, in turn, give others the incentive to do the same. what if you only made so much money that you can barely take care of yourself, but you made too much to get benefits from the gov't.... while shamika and her eight kids are living off then gov't with a life, that may not be great, but it's better than you. now, how you like it? cause that's what it is.

I don't know if there are really people out there who will drop their working life JUST because they can get benefits and stuff. Certainly not a lot of them. It sucks, but there's no way of avoiding having people who just miss out on things. It's unavoidable, surely? And I don't know about the Shamika comment... why's she gotta have a foreign name? Just as many local leeches. I know you probably know that... I just don't like the racey stuffs.

[FishOutaWater]

will they be living the high life? no. but, they wont need to cause the life they will be living will be better than anything they've ever had before. it's not that i won't to keep them down... i just don't like it when people take advantage of the gov't (tax money paid by working americans)... so, that they don't have to lift a finger... except to pick up their monthly check.
it only sucks for those that want healthcare but don't want to work for it. if you're unable to work, that's one thing, but if you're able and you have figured out ... "hey, if i don't make too much money, or any at all... i'll be given what others have to work for... cause they're the ones paying for it... ha ha ha..."

trust me, the united states of america didn't become the greatest country in the world for so long by running the country the way we are heading. the people of australia can only hope that they go to the old way of the usa... the working people, anyway.

Oh dear, I don't know where to begin. I disagree with everything you have said in this thread, as it is not based in fact or reality. I flipped past Hannity last night and there was a guy on there calling Obama a marxist/socialist/communist. And people hear this and get riled up and believe it. That's what gets under my skin. It's irresponsible. It shows an utter lack of knowledge of history or a lack of understanding of the meaning of the terms or total ignorance of what Obama has done. Or maybe it is deeply seeded racism or greed, disguised as patriotism. Tea party people have been opposing Obama's taxes for a year now and he hasn't even raised one single tax before a few weeks ago with the surtax on the highest income earners to pay for the health insurance reform. At least he paid for it. The Medicare drug benefit give-away to the pharmaceutical companies that was passed through RECONCILIATION under the Bush regime wasn't even funded and widened our deficit (along with the 2001 tax cuts for the wealthy and the unnecessary, immoral 2 trillion dollar war he started). Obama actually lowered taxes on most individuals. And the spending is necessary as a stimulus package that worked. It fucking worked! He pulled the whole global economy out of the fucking ditch that Bush drove us into, and the Republicans that were behind the wheel are now complaining about the tow truck bill! Thank God government was there to provide a back-stop when the super-sized merged mega banks that were too big to fail needed to cry for help, right before the whole darn economy turned into a black hole. How short some people's memory is.

You do realize that Obama didn't make any changes to the welfare system, don't you? Everything you have said about the poor being lazy and cashing checks and living off of the rich has nothing to do with anything that Obama has done. You seem to be conflating your misplaced anger about the few who abuse the welfare system with Obama for some reason. His healthcare reform is a watered down insurance industry reform. It attempts to prevent abuses by an oligopoly industry that has abused and made victims of the public and provide a basic human need to Americans who cannot afford health care. Would you rather that people die in the streets because they can't get access to healthcare? Should it make a difference whether you work for a large company that provides healthcare benefits or do not have any known illnesses in order to get reasonably affordable access to the healthcare system? People cannot afford health insurance if they are not a part of a large group rate with an employer. Why should the place you work dictate whether you can afford to see a doctor - what do the two things have to do with each other?

I love the capitalism and anti-regulation lines of Republicans. Have you ever played the game monopoly? What happens when one player starts to accrue substantially more money and more real estate properties than all the other players? They end up with everything and the game is over, and they win and everyone else is done for. Imagine how much worse it would be if the person who starts to accumulate more money than everyone else gets the opportunity to pay money to Milton Bradley to rewrite the back of the lid to the game and change the rules in his favor.

We obviously need sensible regulation of business practices. You can't have pure, unregulated capitalism. If you did, monetary Darwinism would ultimately stamp the poor and less powerful out of influence and out of existence. We need anti-trust regulations to prevent monopolies. We need financial industry regulation to prevent insider trading and predatory practices. We need consumer protections and the FDA to regulate food and drugs. And the insurance industry is an oligopoly. A small number of huge companies that control the healthcare industry from the doctors to the hospitals and everything in between. They siphon off billions of dollars in profits that enrich their shareholders and executives and they serve no function other than to puch paper around and broker between the health care industry and the patients. Insurance companies don't treat people. They don't do anything for the system. They just siphon funds out of the system. and They abuse their customers. You pay and pay premiums and as soon as you get sick and it becomes expensive to insure you, they raise rates, deny coverage and kick you off the roles, while they make record profits. I've seen people suffer and worry and go bankrupt. I've seen people stay in miserable jobs just because they need the health insurance and they can't afford premiums if they are not employed with a particular company. It's crazy and makes no sense.

Over 45,000 people die each year because of a lack of health insurance. What would Jesus do? He wouldn't complain about a welfare system that Obama hasn't even tinkered with as an argument against improving a failing and abusive healthcare system that causes pain and death.

I could go on for hours here, but I will have to stop there for now.

This post has been edited by FishOutaWater: Apr 6 2010, 4:20 pm

[VoodooLady]

this will, in turn, give others the incentive to do the same. what if you only made so much money that you can barely take care of yourself, but you made too much to get benefits from the gov't.... while shamika and her eight kids are living off then gov't with a life, that may not be great, but it's better than you. now, how you like it? cause that's what it is.

wow...seriously? Shamika? Not Debbie, Janice, or Jethro or Billie Sue for that matter.. but Shamika? Do not even pretend that its just a name you picked. It clearly has racial undertones.

Last i checked, Jesus's teachings were about compassion, equality, inclusion, forgiveness, tolerance, peace and love. His healing ministry's extended to all, including those most marginalized and socially outcast.

and all i see here is intolerance and hypocrisy..

heal thyself brother..

[FishOutaWater]

It's so easy to sit in judgment, armed with a small amount of selective, inaccurate information, and condemn those lazy, worthless, unmotivated "others" who want little more than to live off the public dime, taking from hard-working "real" Americans. There must be millions of those people who are happily scamming the sytem and living the good life off of hard-working, tax-paying Americans. Add on to that the fact that Americans in the top tax bracket will no longer want to work for that next dollar of income because the effective tax rate is just too darn high to make it worth while and there is not enough incentive to want to work for that additional dollar. I can't tell you how many times I have seen an opportunity to make more money and I have passed it up because the top tax rate is just too high to make it worth while. These things are all true right? Add to that a condemnation of gays, fear of abortion, denial of environmental problems, love of guns, desire for prayer in school, and desire to flex military toughness around the world, and you have a recipe for millions of people to vote against their own best interests, and vote for a Republican party of rich white men that essentially, in its heart, stands for nothing more than empowering big business and wealthy individuals with less regulations and lower taxes. So many "conservative" republicans are people who have been manipulated by the propaganda of the Republican party, and it amazes me that the Republican party has been able to keep the charade up for so long. It's a party based on fear and attachment, division and judgment. Apart from occasionally nominating conservative Supreme Court Justices as a token gimme to the conservative base, how many of the other conservative values issues have the Republicans ever actually delivered for their base when they control the legislative and executive branch? Nothing.

[Merica]

I very much agree with FishOutaWater's previous couple of posts. Love the Monopoly analogy.

[VoodooLady]

... i just don't like it when people take advantage of the gov't (tax money paid by working americans)... so, that they don't have to lift a finger... except to pick up their monthly check.

Seeing that i am some schmuck from NJ, I should probably be pretty pissed off that folks from your home state of South Carolina aren’t collectively lifting their finger “enough” Every federal income tax dollar we pay gets spent for services- but that doesn’t get distributed equally. Where is NJ? At the bottom, for every dollar in federal income tax we pay, our state gets $0.61 back. Contrast that to North Dakota ($1.68) or South Carolina ($1.35). (see http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22659.html)

That is a social redistribution of wealth. And our government-under both democratic and republican admistrations, have done that for years, generations even. Sounds awfully “socialist” to me. And when you look at who benefits and who disproportionately foots the bill? Its Red states that benefit while blue states pay thru the nose.

You need to do better than cherry picking conservative talking points smattered with racial overtones to convince me that we are heading for a socialist takeover..

Fish’s comments are excellent, and frankly I’m too tired to say much more now than “ditto”

[OutToDry]

Great stuff fish. Really.

[thefunkyredcaboose]

Glad to see gotigrz perpetuating southern American stereotypes on this thread as well.

[Wambangalang]

gotigrz probably formed his opinion while waving his little american flag and watching glenn beck's take on healthcare here