With Nick, most people post what I think before I do. I can always count on people jumping on it. I still question the guy at times. I see a lot of responses to Nick that are absurd too. Sometimes hes got an interesting point mixed in with the trolling, but its a point that people don't want to hear, and his reputation here shuts people off to it right away.



I'll have to be more careful next time to make myself clear, or maybe just be careful to not read into whats not there.



Yeah I've said that before. If everyone here was crazy Ed fans, and hating on CCP without knowledge, I'd be telling people to get real.




Thats fair, thats the way to go about these talks. Keep it in speculation but take into account all the other possibilities. Don't say Ed's got an ego for buying a house when you don't know anything about it.

As for trials, thats why we all take an oath at the stand, making sure we agree to disclose everything truthfully. if you don't speak up, thats on you. so the analogy is not a match. There are plenty of reasons for him to not speak up about it in public.

i disagree with how you perceive ed's response. again, why should he be public about it, and what about the trial. what is he supposed to do, start arguing about the bands finances to the fans? Or maybe he should tell the fans about how his voice is starting to suck, and he needed to make a change, which wasn't helpful for the band? Is that what you think he should do?

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jan 19 2012, 8:27 am

Jesus, I'm not even about to respond to all of that. I've told you I was not talking about the music. I was talking about what I believe as disrespectful behavior by Ed towards CCP. Thanks for the definition, I know what the word means and I know what I witnessed as well as what other very close to the band witnessed and expressed. The thing is, some of us do know some things, but you chose to ignore them as facts because you didn't witness it. This isn't a court of law though so I don't have to provide evidence to you only to say that I do know for a fact that Ed was disrespectful to his bandmates in my eyes. You'll just have to hide behind your legalese as proof that things are not as they are presented. I doubt any band member is ever going to visit this site or seek you out to give you their take so I guess we're all subject to your courtroom theatrics if we post something you don't agree with. Most, however, agree to disagree, you seem hell bent on proving fact. But even if a band member did present it as fact I'm sure you'd argue that is just their view and we don't have the other side. Maybe you can put together and moderate an Ed vs CCP forum and get them all in the same room as well as all of their fans maybe on a web feed so we can settle every bit of disagreement once and for all.

It's not our fault if you can't get your point across properly
This is a music fan message board, people usually are very passionate and very opinionated, they love their music and their band and they'll go in guns blazing and heart on sleeve. So when you argue so strongly as you do, its easy in this forum to not see that as you making some kind of higher point that none of us know anything about anything. But that you're another passionate fan going into bat for "his team".
When really you're a passionate fan of the law it seems and not taking sides.

I like to think of myself as seeing things in a reasonable balance. Maybe not to the extent of people like Merica, Wam, Fish and Funky (all of whom I think are extremely fair in their posting), but people like OTD, Zman, Aitkens, Sinful, Nick, Live4life and of course gotigrz definitely I think go in to bat for their teams. They're all passionate people. But I like to think I'm somewhat on the level, I lean more towards one side than the other.



So basically you're here to stick up for the little guy mostly, the underdog?

Yeah I agree, the whole buying a big house because of ego was a bit silly, I didn't agree with that either. If I had the money I'd probably splash out a bit too. (Although I wouldn't choose a hole like LA!).
As you said "if you don't speak up, its on you". Ed isn't speaking up, so he and the people who support him are going to have to wear the brunt of people making their minds up on what has been provided.
As I said, he doesn't have to speak in public about it, its his right if he so wishes to say nothing. All I'm saying is I don't think it would hurt him at least to open up a little and show a bit of humanity about it. I don't believe he's shown any, he's just been Eddie K Bot V2.0 in every interview as per usual. Hell it doesn't even have to be an interview.

edit: Wait no I can't say that, I can't prove that he's not shown any humanity about it so there for I shouldn't have that opinion and make up my own mind about something like a rational adult.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Jan 19 2012, 8:50 am

you and i were arguing about whether Ed was disrespecting Lives legacy. If you are not talking about the music, then what is Live's legacy to you?




I don't ignore anything about what happened. What have I ignored?




if its only "in your eyes"
then you don't "know for a fact"



what?




what?




we would all love that.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Jan 19 2012, 9:04 am

I did just fine.




what do you mean, i make my point very frankly over and over again, about not being presumptuous.




nothing to do with the law. nobody thinks i'm batting for the Ed team. People know that i'm just a fan of Live and like to talk about what interests me, or shut someone down when i feel they're being outlandish.




no, not at all.





i say they don't have enough to make up their mind rightly.




no need to prove your belief/opinion, for which you also gave an explanation. You haven't passed it off as fact.

To me the music the past 10 years is a byproduct of a fractured band dynamic to root of which was Ed's egomaniacal ways. You don't have to agree with me. My opinion has been shaped by what I witnessed, and what I've heard through band members, family member, crew members, close friends, etc. I've never heard any of these people speak in favor of Ed. In all the years I've followed this band I've never heard one person other than a fan come to his defense or offer up any explanation for all of the stuff we've heard. The manner in which he conducted himself came off disrespectful in my opinion. I only present this as fact in that I know what I witnessed and I trust quite a bit of what I've heard as told through others very close to the situation. Much of it has been shared over the years in a public forum so it's reasonable for someone to think that about Ed. Does it make it undisputed fact in the eye of the law. I guess not, but who gives a shit other than you. Like I said, others just agree to disagree.

Glad you're here to decide these things for us. We'd be lost otherwise!



Well it's enough for me to feel comfortable in my judgement. If you got a problem with that then I can't help you any further. Thing is how can anyone pass it off as fact, CT could tell his side and be lying about things, Ed could tell his side and be lying about things, you're so hung up on the cold hard facts.
So if the conclusion that you draw is that you have no idea what to believe and reserve your opinion and everyone is equally guilty or innocent and that works for you, that's cool, doesn't make it right either. The conclusion I draw is what I've stated above, and that works for me.

Ed changing the lyrics to Operation Spirit, and Selling the Drama is disrespecting Live's legacy. It changes the entire meaning on the songs. Songs that were the foundation of what Live was built on.

This is what this thread reminds me of.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

.

This post has been edited by Pokey: Jan 19 2012, 10:19 am

God don't open up that can of worms, I'll answer for Bremang to give him a bit of much needed R&R:

"You don't know for a fact that CCP weren't behind that change, maybe Ed OK'd it with them before doing it. This is only disrespecting your vision of what Live's legacy was. Ed also wrote these songs so he can do with them as he pleases."

How'd I do Bremang, did I pass?

No it doesn't remind you of that.

It's funny how this argument about whether Ed disrespected CCP has turned into some legal argument that is subject to rules of evidence. How about first hand eye witness testimony? Does that suffice as evidence? I was an eye witness to disrespect.

I had a rare opportunity on several occasions to observe the band and their tour manager and their families back stage and in their dressing room before and after shoows. CCP and their families and the tour manager and the road crew were all very close like a family. They travelled between shows together and arrived at the venue early and spent time together. Ed was never there. Ed travelled in a seperate SUV. He arrived just before the show. He didn't mingle with the band or the families. He didn't join them in the dressing room. I personally saw him get out of his SUV at a show with a pair of rock star shades on his face and walk to the back stage area with a rock star swagger and attitude and he completely blow off and ignore friends who said hello to him as he arrived. I personally watched him blow offf his band mates and fans at after parties. I personally experienced him disrespect me. This was years before the hiatus. That's eye witness testimony of disrespect. I know that is not how the 4 band members started out. It it was clearly disrespectful to CCP and the band Live and the fans. And all you have to do is line up Chad Taylor's "testimony" and the document record in the publishing contracts regarding who wrote the songs after V, and compare the first 4 Live albums with the last few albums side by side to quickly establish that Ed destroyed Live's creative legacy by taking over creative control and putting out such crap under live's name. Addtionally, another Exhibit in this "case" could be the fact that the tour manager and Jerry Harrison and the road crew were all loyal to CCP and all joined TGF, and the TGF album sounds musically like a powder keg of talent and creativity reminiscent of old Live while Alive sounds like a Justin Bieber album, if Justin Bieber was still in first grade.

There's plenty of evidence. It's all right there.