oh boy

But, that is how they approached TGF at least partially. No one does begging for Facebook fans and Twitter followers better than rock bands who want to be somebody. TGF made that an essential part of their promotion. They, however, couldn't take the grassroots approach on the road and it cost them.

They could have "ridden the gravy train" if they had made the Live and Candlebox connection a bigger part of their promotion. Removing that basically made them a band of "college aged budding rock stars" (whatever that means).

TGF is not Live or Candlebox, TGF is a mid-level band that needed every promotional gear turning and every cost cutting measure to make touring work. They made obvious adjustments to what they were doing throughout, but those adjustments could have been made beforehand with some honest looks in the mirror.

I think they knew it would be hard to start over from square 1, but I don't think they knew just how hard it would be. You can even see that reading CT's tour diaries.

No doubt it was probably more difficult than they imagined. Maybe they downplayed the Live connection with all of the turmoil going on. They still leveraged their names behind the scenes to get some decent promotion. Perhaps they could have set aside all of their history and piled into a van and criss crossed the country for a year, but I think they pared down about as much as you can expect given their history. My point was, they wouldn't have had to anyway if Live hadn't gone the direction they did. That's what could have been handled better.

I agree with your overall point. My problem is that most bands in that middle level where TGF is would KILL for the promotion that they were able to get from the Live/Candlebox connection. Itunes single of the day? NYC radio appearances? Numerous positive album reviews? Those things were unfortunately squandered by overzealous touring plans.

I am not suggesting they criss cross the country in a van for a year. I am suggesting that they make a well planned tour route with a solid promoter, slim down the road crew, organize a street team BEFORE the tour, and do the work of a tour manager within the band so they don't have to pay someone else to do it. That's what bands at their level are doing, and all of those bands would have done almost anything for the promotion this band got just for existing.

If they abaondoned the album and tour because of economics, or because it was just to hard to get it off the ground, that gives Ed all the leverage for any type of reunion because he seems happy touring as Ed from Live.

He gets to choose the Live songs he wants to sing because he is the voice and can get away with singing them. He also gets to sing all the new god stuff he desires. He pulls in old Live fans, his dedicated loyal minions, and he seems happy as can be playing the small stuff and acoustic shows to rake in extra cash.

I think for the Live members of TGF it just got to hard. Plus, these guys aren't kids. They don't have the same energy to put into a new project. I can't think of any successful band from the 90's, that has cash in the bank, that would be interested in starting from scratch and working like they had the edge to make it big because they never had before.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Apr 28 2011, 4:06 pm

I agree, but there are a lot of 90s guys still out there in smaller projects. They manage themselves very differently and still make a living doing it. The industry has changed to where the artist has to be more involved than they ever have before.

The other option would have been to drop the album and then spend months promoting its existence, THEN touring. That would have eased a lot of the pressure off the tour.

Um, i hear what you're saying and I know you work within a band, butthey camped and didn't stay in hotels. Not sure where you get overzealous touring plans.......they cut their guarantees so not to charge $20+ for tickets in this tough time economically. They did these things you mention, pretty much all of it.



I saw their setup and crews....they were running lean as you can pretty much get funky.



It was a group of 10-12 and that includes the band.

I acknowledged that they got part of the way there, and I really do think they tried. Keep in mind that I love the guys and what they do just as much as you do. I'm not being critical just to be critical, I have wanted to see this band succeed from the beginning and I am just unpacking why I think it hasn't thus far. I could very well be wrong.

I don't think they had a choice on the ticket price issue. That is what they wanted to do at first, but they got in the bed with the wrong people who wanted to charge more. That was part of the problem I'm alluding to.

I disagree with 10-12 being a lean crew for the level of popularity of this band. When most of your shows are for 100 people you don't take a crew that big. Grab a van and a sound guy, maybe a crew member, and hit the road - do the rest yourself. Get a nice van and a trailer. Fuel economy sucks but it isn't as bad as a bus.

While the owner of the Visulite though the tour rider was funny, I imagine there were other bar owners who were quite put off by it's length. They were probably even more put off by how poorly the band drew in a lot of markets. That is not good, any way you slice it.

One issue with drawing a crowd, just to further explain some of the things I'm talking about, is they overextended themselves in the southeast. They could have done Charlotte and Atlanta like most artists and demanded bigger guarantees because the crowds would have been bigger. This would have freed up three dates to hit other markets they missed on the tour. Just an example of what I'm talking about here.

Again, I love the guys and what they do. I just think there were some poor decisions made on this first tour, and I doubt most of those decisions were even made directly by the guys. I don't claim to be an expert, or even someone who could manage this band successfully, but I have booked a lot of shows as an artist, manager, and a venue. The kind of venues I have booked at and for are the kind of venues TGF was playing, so I can't imagine that everything I'm saying is untrue. I just think that the things I am pointing out were things that could have been corrected BEFORE the tour by working with people who understood the band's popularity and the current touring market better.

I want TGF to be successful and I never want to see Live together again with EK. If things keep going as they are that isn't going to happen. I doubt Ed's tour has been extremely profitable, but he is still out there touring. It is just so damn frustrating.

This post has been edited by thefunkyredcaboose: Apr 28 2011, 8:36 pm

No issues with the points you raised but I am not an expert in how all that stuff works. I'd like to see it all come together but I understand things are taking a slow arduous road.

They have taken on a real big name as a general manager. There are supposed to be some late summer / fall touring with another known artist. I don't know what's up, it's kind of quiet. All the CB box dates don't tell me enough info that there won't be any TGF shows. Guess the planning stages are ongoing, to make it better economically for them.

Have you got any examples of some of the items on the rider?

I wish that I did, I didn't see it. I would imagine that it is things like showers, food, and other things that you would expect to see on a typical Live or Candlebox tour. Most of the venues they were playing wouldn't have those amenities unless the band is going to absolutely pack the place. I do remember him mentioning things about the sound system and lights, but that's about all he said.

OTD, if they signed with a general manager that is great news. Did they do that to get on a bigger tour? I think they've got one more shot with this album to get it to the people. It was just hard to watch mistakes happen that could have been prevented.

they have a guy named Simon Renshaw on board. He's a mogul in that industry. He's general manager in partnership. There goal is to get on with another act in order for more people to see them and realize who they are. The last album might get re-released, with the Bside record too.

That sounds about right. The suggestions I was making were based on the band doing things on it's own, like they were doing. This would change things a lot.

I would think the two songs they were recording would be put on as bonus tracks on a re-release, right? Maybe they'll try Honest Man again as a single, or Closer.

Either Chad has been reading this thread or its a complete coincidence he posted that message to TGF's Facebook page this morning.

Good news, regardless.

I am definitely a detractor, that's why I...

-flew to Chicago to attend the Summerfest show
-have a framed picture with the guys from the show, as well as my autographed CD
-bought several copies of the CD to give as gifts
-was absolutely beside myself to attend soundcheck
-requested the singles at local stations and gave the disc to DJs I know
-spread word in all the cities they played where I know people (almost the whole crowd at the Greenville, SC show were my friends)
-bought the vinyl
-and own a couple of the t-shirts

So, I sincerely hope that the comments I made didn't lead to the Facebook message (I doubt they did), but I support these guys 110%. Live and Candlebox are my two favorite bands of all time, TGF is a dream come true for me as a music fan.