You must know enough about them to declare that Christianity is the spiritual truth. Let me refresh your memory:

It's not what they do or don't believe. It's that they have the same level of conviction to their religion that you do based on about the same amount of "proof". But that raises another point. You don't know much about other religions but still know yours is the right one. How? What's your favorite band? Were they always your favorite band? What if you'd never heard your current favorite band and went on believing that your previous favorite was your favorite. Does that make your belief in that band right or wrong? Because your current favorite band would still be out there and exist, you just wouldn't know about them.

Not the perfect analogy, but you see what in getting at. How can you be so sure what you believe is right with so many other avenues to explore?

It's people who are brought up by patents/teachers to believe one wayfrom birth like I was that I struggle with. I find it amazing some people never have the "hey wait, maybe there is something else.." moment that I did. Although it's the born agains that piss me off more because they're generally the ones trying to sell god to me. And in the end that's my real gripe, believe what you want. Just don't knock on my door at 9am on Saturday morning to tell me about the love of Jesus Christ because I am most likely hung over from a big Friday night.

Steve,
You are completely right, I stated that your beliefs were your opinion. I apologize for that. Your beliefs are just that, your beliefs.

Christianity is exclusive. I believe it is the only way. Therefore, I believe your beliefs are wrong. That is hard to say sometimes but it is part of what we believe. It doesn't make me happy to believe you are wrong. I don't think I'm better than you or smarter than you. Its just what I believe.

This post has been edited by deepenoughtodive: Mar 29 2011, 2:27 pm

Pokey,

I think that is a fair analogy. I certainly fit the profile you describe of growing up being raised to believe in Christ. I actually have had a couple of times in life where I've wondered if Christianity is real, is there something else? I wonder but I never abandon my beliefs. I'm not very good at apologetics so I can't really defend my faith. I could give you some quotes from books I've read about the historical accuracy of the Bible and the prophecies in the old testament that came true but i'm sure you and others could give me quotes that i wouldn't have an answer for. The bottom line is I believe the Bible.

I also believe you have the right to your beliefs.

You're doing it again. Those aren't my beliefs. I lack belief. It would be nonsense for me to say, Well you lack belief in a frog monster that lives on pluto, those are just your beliefs". "I believe in the frog monster and since it's just our respective beliefs were on equal footing" No. I simply lack belief. When you believers say things like "that's just your opinion" or "your beliefs" You are trying to equate the lack of belief to a position of belief. The two aren't equatable. Were not on equal footing when it comes to logic, reason and critical thinking (on this particular subject).





It's OK that you believe what you believe. You just should refrain from talking in absolutes on this subject because you can't prove a slightest portion of anything you have faith in.

It's totally possible that I'm wrong about the frog monster. It could exist. However, it wouldn't be rationale for someone to argue it's existence absent any evidence. A believer and a disbeliever in the frog-monster aren't equally valid arguments. That's a mistake you believers often make. You cannot validate your own beliefs so your only option is to attempt to invalidate a lack of belief by equating them as both "beliefs".

He might be Christian. He might be faking it, which would be an easy way to take your money. Or he might just be flip flopping between faith like he's presented to us throughout his career. He claims he became a whole-hearted Christian after viewing a painting. I'm sure faith comes about in all sorts of ways, but this is how you'd be defending Ed's new-found faith.

Though I do agree that his angst could be genuinely dissolved by not being at odds with the world the same way he may have been in the past.

Why do you insist on telling me what I can and can't do? You keep redefining what we can and can't say. Now I can't say anything about your lack of beliefs, ok. There is no conversation here. You are talking about frog monsters.

I try to stay out of political/religious debates. No one can be convinced and everyone wants to do the convincing. Next thing you know everyone hates everyone more than before the debate started.

what do religions have in common? need the cash register ringing in order to survive.

Don't Scientologists believe in frog monsters?

Not all Christianity is exclusive. Only some strains of it are. There are plenty of very bright, insightful Christians who see the gospels and panoply of early church documents in the historical, social, literary, linguistic, economic, political, religious, civil context in which they were produced and reach a very logical, non-literal, non-exclusive form of Christianity that really resonates with me. To me, the "truth" lies somewhere within the message of personal transformation and social justice that Jesus and his followers were sharing amidst the violence, and social injustice imposed on an oppressed people in the first century Roman empire ruled by Ceasar.

I have said this many times here and I will say it again. If you have not challenged and tested the beliefs that have been handed to you, by studying in depth other religious traditions, and studying your own Christian documents in a historical, social, economic, religious, Roman context - and think about when and why they were written, by whom and to whom, then you are missing a lot! The gospels were not written by stenographers that were following Jesus around writing every contemporaneous syllable. The gospels cannot be all literally true because they are filled with internal factual inconsitencies and contradictions. The Gospels were written 30 to 90 years after the death of Jesus, based on oral history and traditions, to certain audiences to emphasize certain points, in certain contexts. The context is too rich and deep to discuss at length on a message board. But context is everything.

i tried that one but after 8 years of me doing all the talking i started to feel a little neglected.

Organized religion is the root of all evil. It appalls me.

Not true, people are the root of all evil. The unfortunate thing for organised religion is that it is FULL of them.



I've enjoyed reading all these posts on both sides, it's becoming a more civilised sequel to "gotigrz's Christianity topic".

To get back on topic - does anyone have the videos from the Live at Chapel show?...