You guys do realize that music from "Honest Man" by TGF comes from the song "Believe" by Live.

Just give it a listen:

Honest Man: http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/gracious...-man--218696430

Believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZqT0stibWs

New lyrics - same base song . Ed had his chance with it and then Kevin (or the band) redid the song.

I wish I had a studio version of Believe to directly compare the two vocal performances. I prefer the lyrics of Honest Man but I would have loved to hear this as a Live song.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Aug 3 2010, 7:54 am

I actually wonder how "Believe" fits in with the break up. Chad complains of having no input musically. I'm assuming the band, not Ed, wrote the music since they kept it.

Was Ed trying to come to terms with the band and by singing lyrics to their music? Did the band step up and say were having more imput and we're playing this? Either way I think with some work it could have been a hit.

We;ve had this discussion in Feburary Hoody

http://www.fansoflive.com/forums/index.php...opic=2963&st=15

Eds lyrics suck ass for the music. This pretty much sums up where they were artistically speaking.

Ya - that was months ago. Since the video just came out I thought I'd bring it up cause some people might have missed the discussion or Believe when it came out on youtube.

Dude where have you been? Duh!

You make is sound like it's a new revelation in your post. We discussed it at length.

It's discussed long time ago yes, but I think you are at something here Hoodstock. This, and Purifier seems the evidence that the band finally were able to put some imput after many years (I think they made an ultimatum, just like Ed did before), but after all the money issues shit came out they decided: oke, this is it. Just like Michael said.

Way to go, Hoodie.

Loved this from the comments for the Believe video:

NO WAI!!!

It's VAI

That's what I'm trying to get at. I wonder if the band was trying to mend (which could have been awesome) and something happened that caused the rift to widen or if the guys stood up and said this is what we are playing and it drove Ed nuts to the point where they just couldn't agree.

Either way, the sounds of the band were sounding fresh and Ed's lyrics were the stale same old stuff. I think it's good they found a new front man to experiment with and it's good for Ed to do his own thing. It's probably the best for both.

Hopefully it's one of those temporary things. STP broke up over Scott W. being an ass and a drugie. He did Velvet Revolver and they got a new frontman and started another band. Six years later everything is worked out and they are back with an new album and back on stage rocking.

Want to discuss what was going on with the band and the difference in the songs. Slightly changed the forum topic title just for you OTD.

Sir - Hope the new title is satisfactory to you and your complaint so you stop bitchng about it.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Aug 3 2010, 7:57 am

Sorry to bitch at you Hoodie. I agree with your snyopsis on what may have been going on.
There were certainly creative differences. CT's blog post puts some more of this into light.

Yeah the fact that CT has said he was sitting on this riff for years must have meant he wanted to work it into Live somehow probably since BOP. The fact the setlist started to change to add songs that didn't seem to reflect what Ed was writing at the time and then this coming up .. it leads me to believe that CT and the guys must have started pushing hard to write again with Ed. My guess is that CT went to Ed with the riff for believe and they tried to work something out for Ed to put lyrics to it, like the old days. However the song has always sounded disjointed to me ... the lyrics just don't fit. I imagine Ed wasn't happiest doing that so under the circumstances it just didn't work .. half the band had one vision and Ed had another and the song was a bit of a mess.
Ed wanted "Just In Time" and "Stand" .. CT and the guys wanted "Honest Man" and "Closer". So not surprising the song just seemed to disappear quickly and die. For the best really.