6. I am trying to understand what Live ship was sailing that they jumped off.
I had one foot out the door with SFBM, but then I was back in with both feet for The Turn. Then they kicked Shinn out, had their band drama, got back together, took years to release a very meh EP with Local 717, and haven't really done much to show they give a crap since, so they reap what they sow. If they don't care, why should I? If they do care, I'm not seeing it, and I say that as someone that's looking for literally any excuse to support them.

Yes, excellent answers to those questions. Bob just threw bombs everywhere.

We are a little cult following of Līve now… their hardcore base, just clinging and hanging on for anything from them. To be poked fun at for still being a Līve fan (in my experience) really sucks.

There is nothing wrong with wishing better for and from Līve. But to be told you are basically an ungrateful person for wishing for better, for comparisons to other bands, or not liking an album, a setlist, or a direction they’ve went, is extreme. For the same reasons, to be told to move on, boycott, delete, unfollow (what’s the quote from Gruno?, because “Līve causes us so much personal distress” or whatever he said, is utterly ridiculous.

It's alright - doesn't Loyve have like 3 other drummers?

I see no reason Zak Loy would want to play Ed solo shows and promote his solo work with Ed when he could make way more money playing festivals with Loyve.

someone needs to tweet zak and ask him what he plans on doing with Ed's music

...They haven't put out any music in about 7 years. Zak Loy featuring Live sucks ass...

you mean the Loyve Lounge?

And before it gets brought up again, NO! -Līve doesn’t owe any fan a damn thing & can do/not do whatever makes them happy. But as Bob said, they have to reap what they sow for that. As I said initially, the consequences for that.
In the meantime, I’ll be here waiting for what Līve decides and to talk about my opinions if it. That’s what fans do. They actually talk. It’s part of what makes this whole love of music a special thing.

Bombs?
Interesting you would use that word to describe his explanation. Very interesting.
Why bombs?
Bob explained himself thoughtfully and to the point. Bob didn't post insults or berate others who see things differently.
What bombs did you see?



Yeah that sucks. Who poked fun at you?

Was it anything like the way Live was poked fun at in the thread "What's Happening in 2021?" or many other times on this board?
You seemed to join in on the 'ole fun there. Is it ok to poke fun where the band is concerned but no one can poke fun at your fandom?

But, you claim it's a place where fans go to discuss Live. Where's the discussion when it turns to insults, berating, and ridiculing the band? Sounds like the fan is the disgruntled, jilted lover that can't get over their ex -- things were good before, but can't find the classy way to bow out.

Some openly say that Live has not produced anything worthy on CD since before SFBM, do not like their setlists, think the current touring band is boring/horrible/etc.

Some here have attempted to ridicule me and have berated me for working with the band and knowing them.
Is that fair to me? Why are fans allowed to do that to me here?
Because I give my honest opinion on music or touring, never coming from Live, I get labeled as a 'shill' repeatedly from that idiot Gruberg, who is now watching his tongue, rightfully so. Is that fair to me as a fan of Live posting on this message board?






You're expanding what I said, diluting what I said. If all this causes you trauma, then leave. I never said if you don't like an album, setlist, etc., then leave. WTF?? Please, direct quote me next time if that helps.


You want to compare Live to other bands and that's your choice. It will only lead to your disappointment. However, your words come out against Live as worded to the sense that they should be doing what these other bands are doing. As a fan, for me to say anything Live should do is Live should do what they want for their career.

I have said if Live causes you so much trauma, why endure that pain. What's so bad about that statement to be labeled ridiculous? If you're sitting on the couch getting fat eating cake, stop eating cake. Live causes you grief or trauma, then get that out of your life. How is this a bad thing to say?

Speaking of that message board user above, he is a prime example for this. You have this one user who berates me for discussing the good. Yiou have seen it. The proof is all there. He complains about things, then he ridicules. He is so infatuated with Loy, he can't stop talking about him. No one brings Loy up in discussion most times... then you will get this type of junk:








Tell me again how something like this is wishing for better, comparison to other bands, or not liking an album or a setlist. Please let me know where to categorize this type of decrepit banter.




Nobody is saying not to post about Live on a message board.
No one is saying to not post your criticism and to only post positives.
No one, but you know that.
Look back at these posts the last year and see if this fandom supports Live like you claim.
It doesn't.
The constructive, well-thought posts from fans about their EP and tour set lists are here on this board, right?
Those posts should outweigh the ridiculing of the band, correct?

You act as if:
No one here ridicules Live's music.
No one here ridicules Live's setlist.
No one here ridicules their business ventures.
No one here ridicules their personal lives & beliefs.

Fun is fun. Things can be jovial with fun back and forths. But, that's not really happening here, is it?

Some hide behind the guise of, we are fans on a message board...

So, that's a definition of a fan?

Ohohoh I want to respond as I'm a *prime* candidate for this being a fanatic about them from 96-03ish, was letdown by SFBM on '06, loving The Turn in 2014 (and firmly believe that Shinn ruled as the lead singer after Ed left), and back to being letdown for Local 717 in 2018. That, and it just makes for a good thread.

1. Where did the fans go?
IMO, they've simply moved on. Live peaked with TC and SS (though TDTH got close in the US at #4 and others had moderate success overseas), and never fully recovered. Also, the music industry changes on a dime, so the next new hotness came along.

That and a lack of social media presence has whittled their fanbase down to the core. Also, age. The fans of TC and SS were likely mostly in their late teens and early 20's in the early 90's. We're all in our mid 40's now and I'm sure have found other bands to fill the void that Live left behind in addition to life, families, full time jobs, and now the worst pandemic in quite a long while.

2. Did these fans delete their social media feeds of Live?
I haven't, but Live doesn't exactly post much, so they're easy to forget if they're not in the public eye. I wonder who runs their social media pages anyway. Posting every few weeks about random Live related things isn't the way to retain a fanbase. I want ECCP to post and interact with the fans, rather than whomever is running the show right now that's probably not even Live. I don't want to interact with the social media team. I want to interact with Live.

Some ideas for free: Conduct a monthly AMA. Do a FB Live or Insta stream. Make a Twitch account like countless other musicians and fart around while interacting with fans. There are countless social things they could do to stay relevant in music and interact with fans, but they also don't owe us a thing, so here we are.

3. Are they gone forever never to return?
I don't know. Live will come back sooner than later in some fashion, but again, only the core fans will likely be around to notice or care. It also depends on how much marketing their label does for the new music, and how much their social presence changes to support said content. It's complicated.

4. If Live releases an album or tours in 2021 or 2022, will those people not go to the shows or buy the music?
If it's anything like Local 717, I don't know that I'll buy their next effort, but they've also had me since 1996. We're core Live fans and are waiting for literally anything to come out of the Live camp. We're not fairweather casual music listening fans. I should ask my best friend who is a very casual music listener. I bet you $5 he'll listen to it once on Spotify, if he remembers to after I tell him it's out, and then he'll move on.

I don't know if I'll go to their next show. It really depends on where it's at, who's playing with them, and seeing what the setlist is like. If it's the same 12 songs I've been hearing on their last 3 tours, I'm probably going to pass. We'll see. Tickets aren't cheap, dealing with traveling and parking sucks, and now, Covid concerns.

5. Will those former fans be boycotting everything Live related?
I'm not boycotting anything by Live. Boycotting is a very negative term more related to protests and the like. I simply have seen their music quality decline in recent years and will choose to purchase their next content if it meets my standards of what I believe Live can achieve. I want them to release more music like what was on BOP, The Turn, and even The Gracious Few. If it's like Local 717 or SFBM, that's a hard pass.

6. I am trying to understand what Live ship was sailing that they jumped off.
I had one foot out the door with SFBM, but then I was back in with both feet for The Turn. Then they kicked Shinn out, had their band drama, got back together, took years to release a very meh EP with Local 717, and haven't really done much to show they give a crap since, so they reap what they sow. If they don't care, why should I? If they do care, I'm not seeing it, and I say that as someone that's looking for literally any excuse to support them.

He was a total prick to me once on a different fan board. I made an off handed comment about how great it would be if they leaked a track from Black Mountain early, and he personally came on the board to castigate me, and call me whiny and demanding, and then went on a rant about hw precious music is and how fans can't just expect it.

I mean, I wasn't talking to the fucking band, I was talking to fans on a fan board about wanting to hear new music. NOT OK, apparently.

The guy is a knobend.

ETA, might have been Chad Taylor actually. I forget now, it was a Chad in any case.

This is interesting. Can you remember what board that was? If you were posting about SFBM then it was probably in 2005 or 2006.

It was White Discussion. I don't remember when exactly, but I suspect it might actually have been in the run up to The Turn, not SFBM as I said. Definitely not as long ago as SFBM now I think about it, so it could only really be The Turn.