This is one of the loudest mastered, dullest sounding things I now own. It's brickwalled beyond belief. Poor Live, they can't do anything right

This post has been edited by mattdm11: Oct 13 2018, 8:39 pm

It's been said many times and many ways.....but you are Ed, aren't you?

Nice to see you round here again, mate. Interesting points, as ever.

To build on what you've said above, I think it's weird that they've tried to do this kind of generic rock sound, because it's one they've never really done successfully at any point of their career. They don't know how to do this type of stuff well, and it shows once again on this EP. And frustratingly, from his famous letter response, the FaceCulture interview alongside Chris and just by listening to TGF/The Turn, we KNOW that Taylor and co know what good music and proper songs are, and how to make them. So to come out with this.... I dunno.

After the quality of The Turn I can't take returning to a place where we're going "yeah man, that's like the good stuff from BOP and Ed's a little bit angsty on this portion of the song". Like loooool that's clearly nowhere near good enough. Let it never be forgotten that they buried The Turn for this.

This post has been edited by Merica: Oct 14 2018, 3:02 am

Nothing like Love Lunch at the music buffet

This post has been edited by Bremang: Oct 14 2018, 5:32 am

Open disclaimer: I dont have the album yet. I've ordered it from the band and I'm waiting for a few weeks before I give it a good listen. I have streamed each of the songs once or twice, however, just to hear them.

I get that some think Brother is the best song of the collection but it's the one that actually irks me the most right now. Although I do like the sound I can't get past the recycled and misplaced lyrics. Every time I listen it just serves as a reminder of how dry Ed's lyrical well has gone.

For example, the line "we're dancing on a razor blade". That's a lyrical concept taken right from TFATM - "Balanced on a razor, you'll be dancing with angels". There's also the multiple references to the sun ....

The worst for me though is "child", just can't get past it to enjoy the song. The lyrics ask for your brother - a grown man - to walk by your side. So why are you throwing in "child"? It's totally misplaced and unnecessary. Is your "brother" a child? Child Please! That's also right from TFATM. Ed sings "child" four times in the same song that I already referenced, Angel's on a Razor. Child actually makes an appearance in at least four songs on TFATM alone.

So, while I like the sound of the song (the riffs, the vocals, the bass, the drums) the lyrics are just tough for me to move past.

And if you're first thought is "well, what about waterfall?". I guess water has been so drug out I don't even know what to say at this point. It's almost like a running inside joke with the band.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Oct 14 2018, 7:13 am

Far out! You're keen to get it on CD. You should have let me know you wanted to get the CD. I could have found another 2 or 3 people in Perth who wanted the disc - could have split that obscene postage rort.

I'm think I'm going to wait until Amazon or some other retailer gets stock before I order but that autographed version looks tempting - probably the only way to get it is from the official F4L store.

One other thing - it's called Local 717. 717 is an area code but adding Local also makes it a union reference. A rock song about the struggles of being a laborer working hard in Pennsylvania to support a family (and the struggles that go along with that) would have been a great fit with the EP title.

That would have been great subject material to sing over one of the new riffs. That would have been something I would have loved to hear Live do. It fits where they are from. PA is blue collar.

One of those songs released should have been written as a title track instead of what it is. Like Honest Man, that would have been a great song!

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Oct 14 2018, 10:09 am

Yeah I should have thought about that Dan, but I only ordered the CD out of frustration from Live's website because Amazon didn't let me get past the ordering page for the digital download (presumably because of our government blocking us from buying shit from American amazon) , and the Australian site doesn't offer it at all.

This post has been edited by Wambangalang: Oct 14 2018, 3:58 pm

On the one hand, I completely agree that they should have done this, as it might have been better than anything on 717, but on the other hand, I disagree for two reasons: One, I don't think Ed can write like that any more. IMO, he hasn't written anything that powerful since BOP. I don't think he's got it in him based on everything he's done post-BOP. Two, we've already had two songs like that in the past, even on the same album: Pillar of Davidson, and to a lesser extent, Shit Towne.

I'm disappointed in Local 717 for multiple reasons (most of which have already been covered here), and I hope Live does better on their next release, but I doubt it, because those songs likely wouldn't fit on a full record with these four on it as well, assuming they're going to make a full release next year that includes these songs in some fashion, similar to what they did with Four Songs and MJ.

Someone earlier brought up Believe vs Honest Man, and I'd like to take that a step further: What would Local 717 sound like with Shinn on vocals instead of Ed? "The Turn" was a great return to what most believe Live should sound like. "Old Live", if you will. Would Local 717 even tonally sound the same? I highly doubt it. It would be a completely different record, but I'm pretty sure that it's one I'd like more than this effort.

I'm enjoying it a lot too. I like that they're trying new things musically and lyrically, and I'm not bothered by the production like some folks are. There are a few parts I prolly would have liked more if they were done differently, but overall I think it's a fine release as they recalibrate and find their compass again.

New things lyrically? Let me quote myself since that's what Ed seems to do:



It is a totally fair criticism to say that Ed has become lazy as a writer. He doesn't critically review his own work or challenge himself to go outside of his comfort zone when writing.

This post has been edited by Hoodstock: Oct 14 2018, 4:39 pm

I get your point Merica and I think a lot of us here are with you. I am. It may not be good enough for our taste, no. But still I think it isn't so wrong to point to things we like, without approve the whole EP. After all those years we became thirsty for anything that resembles LIVE's past, even when it's a small bit here and there.

This post has been edited by SecretInsomnia: Oct 14 2018, 4:50 pm

There's plenty of new ideas in there, too. And I know, I caught the lines in Brother (and a few others) too. Some of the lyrics are recycled, and that doesn't bother me.



Criticism is fair if you believe that's the case, sure. I guess I'm not looking for an exegesis on democracy and capitalism, or a rage against the social failings of modern culture. Those things are happening, but I want to be lifted out of my frustration, and this is doing that for me.

This post has been edited by san_sao: Oct 14 2018, 5:02 pm

Reading most of the comments on here, and I would have to agree with what seems to be a vast amount of people. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the music on Local 717. I mean, I get that people change, situations change and so forth, but I don't find anything in these tracks having a signature sound, vibe, or spirit of Live. I think these songs were meant to get people back into listening, and tell people that they are back together, with these loud but uninspiring songs. The worst part is, now that Ed is back, I can't stand his lyrics or melodies on these songs. Funny enough, I can say that he's transitioned ever so slightly back in the day with albums, but this 'EP' is just so apparent with put together and cheesy lyrics, that to me, make me want to stop listening. I don't know, but for me, they are not enjoyable. There used to be a time where I was excited to hear the 'new' stuff, but this time around, there was apparently no rush, and now with the songs out, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Yep, don't get the 2 drummer thing. Yeah, there's always been a thing with 2 guitar players, which I didn't mind in the past. Traditionally, guitars are more of a lead instrument, and having the 2nd helped to fill in the gaps. It helped back in the day, and as does now, but this 2nd kit on stage and now apparently transitioning to the recordings is NOT Live.

I don't want to sound too bitter, or offend anyone. If anyone likes the new songs, I'm happy for you. But for me, I'm not digging them. There were quite a few mentions on production and how it didn't sound good. And I would have to agree that this is possibly the loudest recording to date. Hell, I can actually hear Chad's drums so much more than others...BUT, I would have thought that after soooo many years, they all would put a little more effort into quality. Not just rush out and say, we are back and just put something out that appears to be all over the place in direction.


I actually liked a portion of The Turn. Not all of the songs, but I felt it was a much better and grounded effort to put something out there. I thought Chris Shinn put his heart and soul in those songs, and I appreciated his effort. That said, I'm starting to think that Live will never be the same. And, that's OK! Like I said, people change, but I unfortunately wont be taking that ride with them, based on the direction they are going in now. To be honest, I think TGF was the BEST thing that could have happened to them after all that happened, years ago! I get the want to return to Live, as being something they were very familiar with. But to me, TGF was The Turn that they needed to take, and stay the course going forward.

Best Regards to Everyone...

While, I enjoy 3 of 4 new songs on the EP (cover is good, but doesn’t count in this analysis), I agree here. I also reiterate, they have ALL been lazy since the reunion. Not just Ed. Perhaps it will change for 2019, but I’m not so hopeful. How many days now until the headlining show coming up in Australia? (And who here is going?) Honestly, I think this Australian gig might be a fair prediction of what next year will look like. If they don’t pull some surprises out of the bag for that show, it will tell us a lot.

In reference to Hoodstock’s earlier post, as for “child” being used along with Brother, maybe it’s meant to be “child of God”. Or, it is as you say, and just a lazy oversight of something that really makes any sense lyrically. Doesn’t bother me like when he throws “mama” into Turn My Head, however.

He sure is into “little” this time around... little baby, little lotus, little house, little hill, little pill...