Gerry, you've embarrassed yourself by dragging out this old chestnut. Anybody with even a basic understanding of decency knows that there's a world of difference between criticising a band on a message board and being rude to their faces. The idea that you have to say it to their face to validate your criticisms is obviously ridiculous.

Yup. Also, this notion that as a fan you're not allowed to criticise.

Once again gerrycan, not a single person on this message board fits your description. I imagine there's a Live group out there on Facebook that you would love, where everyone goes spelunking through Chad and Ed's backsides.

Yeah, I mean the bottom line is that this site has been the one true go-to for the deeply passionate fans (both positive and negative) since Live-Web went away. And there have been so many situations that have resulted in a lot of bad blood. The band is human and makes mistakes, and some of those mistakes have led to a lot of residual bad feelings (whether those feelings were warranted or not).

Bottom line, the band always made radical departures from what they were doing from album to album, so more and more people got pissed off along the way (again, whether warranted or not).

Some of it was the record label, and not even Live's fault. For example, the reason most people love The Distance to Here is because it was just that good, but when you think about it, they left the original (and superior) version of Overcome off of it, they left Change off of it, they released Sun without Chad's awesome Guitar chord progression from the '98 live shows, Ed started in with the Lennon worship, they left Deeper off (??!!), and wasted an opportunity to give fans a double CD of pure awesomeness.

So if there's that much to gripe about arguably their second best album (yes, Throwing Cooper is just better), imagine all the stress over V (which the band didn't even want to release that way) and SFBM (where some might argue that the 'BM' in SFBM stands for bowel movement).

Then there's the obvious band break up, where many people 'chose' a side and stuck to it like it was politics or something, refusing to see the other side's story. You had fans attacking other fans for no real good reason here. You had people hating on Ed, only to later be the biggest hypocrites and not be bothered at all when they got back together. Go back and see what some of these people said, and then consider that they'll now happily buy more Ed music, and it's beyond laughable.

Then there was Chad T's Cyberdust Churchbox debacle, which revealed more clearly than ever how he felt about fans.

And on and on and on.

The worst of it was that we've had Live "fans" shaming and attacking other fans for enjoying the music and wanting to listen to it.

Anyway, it's nice that the band can kiss and make up. More power to them. It's their lives.
But with all the bad blood that's been spilled on this forum, there will forever be residual negativity, no matter how good or bad any new music is from now on.

Sad but true.

Great post. Very accurate.

and illout

Ah yes - wow- I had forgotten about that awesome site.

Wow, that brings back memories...

Waterfall sample

https://twitter.com/Freaks4Live/status/1048...9031568384?s=19

I think it's funny how what came up after the "giver man" crap on YT was Lakini's Juice....which reaffirmed my position. Look, bands, grow, evolve, change.....I get it....but there's no doubt in my mind that Live has devolved to the point of just sounding like another band who's trying to pump out generic rock to the masses (yet no one's listening anymore). Mental Jewelry = classic. TC = all-time classic. SS = I felt a step down from the first two, but with LJ, Freaks, Ghost, Gas Hed.....still a very solid album. TDTH = love it, I have a personal connection to it, and is close to my favorite Live album. Great memories from college on that one. V = I like it more than the average fan, and find some songs pretty fun. But yes, this was the beginning of the end. BoP = Like I Do, Lighthouse....some decent songs, but we keep going downhill. SFBM = yikes. Night of Nights and 2-3 other decent songs, but at least half of the album is cringe worthy. Funny enough, during the decade long hiatus.....couldn't stomach anything Ed did, just pure cheese. TGF is easily the best thing they've done since TDTH, and is a great rock album. TGF should have stuck together. Unfortunately, when I made the 2 hour trek to see them in Columbus, and there was maybe 100 people in attendance, I knew this would be the only time I'd see them play live. Sure enough...... And then, The Turn. I don't listen to it a lot, but some good rock songs, like Don't Run To Wait. Chris Shinn wasn't a great front man, but, guess what, this album was better than the dreck that I've heard so far from Local 717. Is it a coincidence that everything Ed has touched for the last 15+ years has been rubbish, yet when CCP venture away from him, they still know how to write a good rock song? There's no way they had input on this EP like they did on their last two efforts...no way. Even ignoring Shinn, listen to the music on The Turn. Good rock music. Not this generic rock/pop hybrid crap that I'm hearing now. Live used to be a top 3 band all time for me. Unfortunately, they are now The Simpsons of my musical life - utterly classic in the beginning, but unlistenable and formulaic now. And it can't be a coincidence that it's due to Ed. RIP Live. You need to go away. I'll buy the EP just because I'm a completest, so mission accomplished for you guys, you sold me an album. But I'll listen once or twice and it'll sit on my hard drive. All I can hope for now is the 25th anniversary edition of TC with all the great outttakes/b-sides that weren't released, maybe along with a MTV Unplugged DVD. Give me the deluxe editions of SS and TDTH (lots of b-sides from TDTH), maybe release a few live albums.....give the fans what they want. The glory days from 20-25 years ago. Your fans will buy that....not this attempt at music. CCP, run away, far far away. Call up Kevin Martin, remember the good times, and give it another go. Let Ed go write about the Ocean, Bays, Fjords, and any other body of water he hasn't included in a title yet.

This post has been edited by mattdm11: Oct 4 2018, 11:31 pm

I'm guessing this is not '10000 cups'

Was it necessary to copy the chorus melody from "Where do we go from here?" and paste it in the chorus of Waterfall?

The best they could do is play to Ed's strengths. Asking him to strain vocals over this loud uninspired stuff is just a bad move on everyone's part. Let him do his flood and mercy subdued vocals with some heavy reverb, and lay some good rock music on that, and mix it well with an experienced producer.

This post has been edited by Bremang: Oct 5 2018, 3:09 am

Sounds pretty good either way. Really looking forward to the 12th now.

Sounds good to me. Mental jewelry vibes.

Yep. Judging from the sample of Waterfall I have officially given up on Live. I'll check out the cover and whatever they do for Throwing Copper, but these new tunes do nothing for me.

If you like the new tunes cool. Enjoy the ride and hopefully, they do a proper tour.