As I mentioned in the Hold Me Up (studio) thread, I also came across a studio version of Susquehanna.

In terms of sound quality I think it's better than Hold Me Up, but this version of the track is different to the others circulating. It contains an extended outro which is absolutely amazing. This definitely requires its own thread.

You can download an mp3 from:
https://www.mediafire.com/?dod9u851a0dai0q

Somebody has also uploaded it to YouTube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcivwE0bw28

Yeah, just like the churchbox version of photograph has an extended outro, but the holiday gift version was cut short. Susquehanna is a way better song than hold me up to me. So glad you found these.

*edit - I wonder why Live never put any of these unreleased songs on TC or SS singles, instead of the live versions of album tracks.

This post has been edited by throwing_cheetahs: May 2 2017, 6:03 am

LOVE!!
Thank you for this.
When they hit the road soon, I really hope they perform a rarity for all of us hardcores. Would love to see this one, even more so than Hold Me Up.

Thanks, Dan!

That outro is damn nice.

I think the same person transfered this that did Hold Me Up. I don't think it's playing at the intended speed, but it sounds quite nice played slightly slow. The extended outro is nice.

How would the tape transfer have anything to do with the speed of the recording? All the other songs on the source tape of TC songs are at normal speed.

It's very common problem, and has nothing to do with the recording on the tape, but the hardware used to transfer the tape.

The tape is fine, but the tape player wasn't playing at the correct speed. It could be power related, it could be faulty hardware. This is old, analog hardware, it's not at all surprising if it isn't functioning at 100%.

So, the TC demo tape that you're referencing is the same recording, but the version that is floating around was transferred by someone else. Whoever made this new transfer doesn't have their equipment running correctly.

I've transferred plenty of tapes and records to digital in the past. No matter how great the quality of the recording is, you're always going to be limited by your playback hardware. I had a great tape deck not too long ago, but it died. Even my new, decent quality Thorens turntable needs recalibrated from time to time (it is belt driven, not direct drive).

This is a new TC tape source with fully finished tracks. read the other thread. All the other tracks from this new source are proper speed and pitch

This post has been edited by Bremang: May 2 2017, 10:19 am

I know what it is, and I'm telling you that whoever transferred these recordings has some issues with their hardware. This is a different tape (and different transfer) of the same recordings that we have been hearing for years.

This is probably a first generation tape, and a cleaner, complete transfer, but its the same recordings that were done in the 90s that we've heard.

I doubt the management company of Live and other huge bands, who decided archive their tapes in the directory provided, ended up using faulty hardware.

Did you download the new tape yet? All the tracks on this tape match the durations on the official Throwing Copper CD. I don't know why you would think that Hold me Up was somehow the only track to be screwed up with the tempo in the transfer. In all likelihood the tape was transferred all at once and then digitally separated track by track.

The TC Demo that had been floating around is not the same as the mixes on this new tape. For example, We Deal in Dreams on the TC Demo has no guitar track, its just bass and drums. This new tape has the final WDID mix just like the greatest hits CD.

Also, it's perfect feasible that there would multiple versions of Hold me up. The studio versions of Hold me up from Mallrats vs Zack and Miri are a different pitch and different duration. Interestingly, the Mallrats version is lower pitch, and the Zack and Miri his high pitched and fast.

Where is the new tape?

Everything about the recordings of Hold Me Up and Susquehanna sounds exactly the same as the older versions (aside from tempo and pitch. and the extra few seconds of Susquehanna). When you speed something up, you change the pitch. That is why the Zack and Miri recording is faster and higher pitched.

These two songs were never released. They may have not had that many takes in the studio. It's not unreasonable to believe that there were additional recordings of the songs that made it onto Throwing Copper (hence the different demo tape you indicate), and not of these outtakes. I just haven't heard anything on these two recordings to indicate they are different takes or mixes.

Hey man, honestly i usually enjoy arguing live stuff but you didnt even listen to the tape or read the other thread, and you forgot what were arguing about, and dont seem to understand why i brought up zack and miri, and dont seem fluent in basic editing.

Are you kidding? I'm telling you, I've listened to these two recordings multiple times, and I am very familiar with the files of these two songs that have been floating around for years. I see topics for these two songs, but not a new TC tape. EDIT: I guess you meant this. Not sure this is a new complete tape, since it's a bunch of MP3s hosted on webplayer...

But honestly, even in the context of a new TC tape, your point is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Just because it's a new tape, doesn't mean all the songs were recorded in the same session. The tape would have been dubbed from whatever mixes they had of individual songs. I'm sure some songs had multiple takes, and others only one or two.

I know exactly why you brought up Zack and Miri - you claim that because it is a different (shorter) length and higher pitch, that it must be a different recording. That doesn't make sense. When you change the speed of a soundwave, you change it's pitch. It could be the same recording slowed down, that is why it is longer and lower pitch. All the inconsistencies I hear in these new MP3s for Hold Me Up and Susquehanna are present on older files.

Where are you getting my trouble with editing fluency? I've transferred analog recordings for years and have recorded in multiple bands. I also do bioacoustic research for work...

This post has been edited by ThrowgnCpr: May 2 2017, 11:58 am

I wish we could argue! But first, actually read the other thread. Then actually download the tape onto your hard drive. Then identify the issue we are arguing. keep in mind i never said that zack and miri was a different recording to this tape. Then recognize we have been in agreement that there are multiple mixes of hold me up, and try to think about how this also hurts your argument.

This sentence makes absolutely no sense. You keep saying there is a tape other than the Media Five web player. So where is it?

Regardless, there can be 40 minutes of farting on it, that still doesn't mean that the demos of Hold Me Up and Susquehanna floating around in the past are a different recording or mix of than what is being discussed in these two threads. The tracks in that weplayer (m5e pod: http://mediafiveent.com/archive/viewprofile.php?id=175) sound like they were taken from different sources. The levels, mix, and noise vary among them.

If you are referring to a different TC tape, then explicitly link to it.

FFS, I really hate this forum sometimes.

This post has been edited by ThrowgnCpr: May 2 2017, 1:43 pm