This.

Normally I'm inclined to believe artists are at their best creatively when they are high off their minds. Ed is an exception to this rule. The music got very weird and bizarre for most orignal Live fans to relate to.

They just couldn't digest the fact that Ed had written works of art on MJ and TC and then lines like: "and so did i now you know that i took that prize in the middle of the club, in the middle of the club, in the middle of club now tell me!"

Apologies, I wasn't slamming your perception, just saying I didn't agree with just a couple of your points and why. I liked how you said that some people grieved a long time ago and some people are just now getting around to it (some understanding there) probably because The Turn is about to be released and there is a finality in that. Thanks for understanding that and not whining about how it was sooo long ago (NOT said by you. That was someone else and hopefully that 2001 was a typo for 2011??). Also your analogy of the band being a relationship in our lives is very valid. --An analogy that even Chad Taylor has expressed.

This post has been edited by Voodoo Lady: Oct 3 2014, 3:25 pm

I hated V, but then one day I came around and now I think it's great. I know how you feel but I think it has a vibe unlike any album, very creative.

I gave up on it years ago. Maybe I need to give it a few more spins.

I sorta agree. If you ignore some of the lyrics, it sounds great. Not TC great, but good non the less.

I wouldn't mind an instrumental version of V. Can't take the ridiculous vocals though.

Why was Ed yelping like he was on that album?

Ed's voice was destroyed over the years, shredding at shows. Eventually needed surgery in the early 2000's.

V, BOP and SFBM can be viewed as good or even great albums on their own but outside the context of Live. These albums have nothing to do with Live. And this is true about a few songs off TDTH as well.

To me, Live is:
Heavy, distinct raw sound, melodic, energy, explosion, deep lyrics. I cannot identify any of those in V, BOP and SFBM. If you can please let me know where I should look.

This post has been edited by Costakoui: Oct 4 2014, 3:22 am

Like I Do and Lighthouse, neither have really deep lyrics, but do have the rest of what you mentioned.

To me Lighthouse is one of their most extremely underrated songs.

Yes, that's why they are good songs, I like them too. I also enjoy to some extent Flow, Forever.., Overcome and Show. So? Still these songs are not Live, they sound like a different band or Ed. Only Like I Do and Lighthouse are closer to Live but they were not made by Ed only - that' s why they are closer to Live sound.

Yes! Lighthouse is very fun to play to aswell. BOP, although not as inspired, could have been much better, if it was recorded and produced a lot rawer, even some songs from SFBM. It was just so smooth and slick, it glided off my soul.

To be correct, I thought CCP left the band creatively, not Ed. It's more like Ed used the room given by developments the record company put the band through. Beginning with the song picks of the company regarding TDTH, using most of the poppier songs, Ed began to write. Still those songs weren't as polished and ultra smooth than later attempts.
Seeing V as just an experimental effort and not meant as a full album, my read is, that all of the band still contributed here, going new ways as a reaction of the template the company wanted them to put in. Although the overall sound V in the end got, was exactly, what was so-called cool at the time. It then was marketed as a full album, a decision not everyone in the band was happy with. And in this process CCP, some earlier and some later, pulled their efforts slowly out.

So, I guess after TDTH it was experimental and rushed, after that the corrective of CCP was missing. And we noticed.
I don't know how much of it is input given by reports I read over the years and how much is my interpretation, so please correct me.

This post has been edited by PhoenixDecay: Oct 4 2014, 4:33 am

Ed left Live creatively because she started writing poppy uninspired songs. Ed stopped working on Chad's music sometime in 2000s (at lease based on Chad's story). Does anybody have Chad's account to what happened? I would like to go through it again.

No hard feelings, just wanted to clear it up. I guess I'm just reading too much for too long on this board and losing my patience too fast. I like how you still try and support, what more can you do?
I was just thinking, that Shinn was handled unfair. I don't think he's wonderful either, but I kind of don't like when people let their emotions dull a fair assessment. But I get it. It sounds terrible to you and there's nothing to argue about then.



I cannot find it either right now ...
But yeah, I get what you mean. My point was, that it got poppier with TDTH, but not yet uninspired. And V was no creative vacuum. It was just experimental and rushed. If they would've taken the time to work on it, maybe a lot of songs would've been better and a lot of them would've not seen the light of day in this process.
But seeing the record company kind of rewarding the poppier and the new cool half of songs, Ed in this phase took the steering wheel and the other members began to be frustrated, because they had no arguments for different music anymore. The company would've stopped publishing the good stuff anyway.

I think the dynamics at that time were very difficult and unclear to see through. It's just easy to mock upon when you look back on it now.

I do not blame Ed only. I never did. CCP are responsible too for tolerating all this and for not taking any action earlier. But I do not think that Ed was just steering the company's wheel. It seems to me that he wanted to go poppier. He started it with TDTH, which he said that it is his favorite album. Even inspired, half of TDTH is far away from Live's heavy and melodic sound (both music and vocals). Anyway, what's done is done. I am currently satisfied with Live 2.0 because it brings back the Live sound. If Live 1.0 (1990s version) decides to come back that I will welcome and will make me happy.